programming and human factors
by Jeff Atwood
Like Scott Hanselman, I view the mouse as an optional computer accessory*. Manly coders love the smell of compilation in the morning and we know that speed = keyboard. A mouse? C'mon. That's so teenage girls can pick emoticons in AOL Instant Messenger. And for flash "developers". Us tough guy software developers know that if it doesn't have a keyboard shortcut, it's not worth doing.
All kidding aside, there's a disappointing lack of keyboard choice for software developers. Here's a typical example:
We make heavy use of the PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, Ins, Del key cluster, and that's the one area of the keyboard that is almost always mangled beyond recognition on today's "cool" keyboards. And what marketing weasel decided it was a good idea to default map the F1-F12 keys to hip new internet functions? I cry for a world where F5 is "open email" instead of refresh/run. On some keyboards, the mangling is so profound that the arrow keys are no longer arranged in an inverted T. Sacrilege!
I'm actually doubly-screwed, because I prefer ergonomic "split" designs. Once I narrow down the list of choices to ergonomic keyboards that also have standard arrow and PgUp/PgDn layouts, I have a whopping total of maybe two keyboards to choose from. And they're both ugly taiwanese knockoffs.
Here are a few keyboards I've considered, and rejected:
Some people swear by certain "classic" soviet-era 10-pound keyboards, but for now, I'm sticking with my discontinued Microsoft Natural Keyboard Protm. No mangling, ergonomic split design, and even two built in USB ports. Which reminds me: why has USB hub functionality fallen so far out of favor on today's keyboards? It's incredibly handy for memory sticks or quickly hooking up a camera to download a quick photo or two.
I'm curious what everyone else's feelings are on this topic:
* Not a complete exaggeration. For example, when setting up the MAME Cocktail system, I had no mouse for a solid week, and I was surprised how little difference there is between keyboard (assuming you know all the magic hotkeys, like SHIFT+F10, and how to tab through to the desktop) and mouse usage in Windows XP. What is aggravating is running into non-Microsoft designed dialogs that have screwed up tab order, or worse yet, areas that are physically impossible to navigate to without the mouse.
I use the Belkin Ergo (yes it's ugleeee), I like the key bounce better than the Microsoft. But I admit, I only used the weird MS Ergo and not the aforementioned Pro. I need a new board for a machine at home, gonna have to pick one up on ebay I guess.... I hate the mouse (well, maybe hate is too strong) and all keyboard all the time is the way to go. I used my mouse on the wrong side like was mentioned above. It has forced me to do things with the KB and my right hand don't hurt so much......
Mike Shaffer on February 11, 2005 1:12 AMThe old Microsoft Natural keyboards are the best. I have started collecting them when I see them laying around. Maybe I can sell them on eBay for thousands of dollars one day.
The only other keyboard I would mention is one I got for around $20 online from a company named A4Tech. This is the second keyboard I have bought from them, and I just like the feel of the keys -- real soft. The Ins/Del group is all screwed up though, which is the only downside. Oh yea, it's wireless as well. If you are wondering, I only use it for my HTPC in the living room. No development.
Anyway, stick with the old MS keyboards for as long as you can.
- Joshua
Joshua Bair on February 11, 2005 2:02 AMThe only keyboard I've tried that I consider *truly* ergonomic in key layout is the Kinesis Contoured keyboards. The rest are crap, ergonomically-speaking. A mere pretense at ergonomics.
I mean, c'mon, the columns of keys all slant from upper-right to lower-left on both sides of the keyboard. Shouldn't the slant on one side be a mirror image of the slant on the other? Shouldn't there be no slant at all, considering the fact that my fingers don't slant to the left on both hands?
The Kinesis board has the keys in straight columns, and in 'keywells' that reflect the fact that my fingers make arcs when they bend and some fingers are shorter than others. This think is a dream to type on.
Unfortunately, while they're really comfortable for regular typing, they've rearranged the home/end/insert/delete/page up/page down/enter/backspace to be clusters under the thumb.
Additionally, cursor controls have been split apart, the escape key's been radically rearranged, the numeric keypad is gone entirely, and the function keys are little rubber buttons with a horrible feel to them.
I long for Kinesis to create a keyboard that's a mixture between the extreme Contoured keyboard's placement of the letter/number keys and the normal key positions for everything else.
Eric on February 11, 2005 2:18 AMI'd like five minutes alone with the rocket scientist at Microsoft who decided to put the "6" key on the wrong side of the split on the Natural keyboard... I'll even bring my own folding chair. Maybe it's because I was a clerk-typist before I was a programmer, but I touch type, damnit, and "6" is and always shall be the right forefinger!
It is, to me, the canonical example of Microsoft unnecessarily redefining a standard.
Ab_Normal on February 11, 2005 2:48 AMI hear you brother, preach on....
I am using the logitech "so-called" Elite, and the F-keys are mapped to "useful" functions by default (with no easy way to turn them off). The most frustrating bits are that F9 opens the My Computer Explorer and that (and this really winds me up) F5 maps to Undo. Just take a moment to think about that....write code, hit F5 to Debug....code won't compile cause the last word has been deleted.....aaargh!
Slarti on February 11, 2005 3:23 AMMS Natural Keyboard Pro, of course!
Michael Teper on February 11, 2005 3:59 AMIf these weren't so expensive, I'd try one out:
http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/en/hhkeyboard/
Plus they have a totally blank one so you can show how cool you are :).
hross on February 11, 2005 4:10 AMI'm a keyboard fanatic myself. I bought one from these guys, and I am very happy with it.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/customizer.html
It's a good, solid, buckling-spring keyboards, where you actually feel the keys being pressed and hear that satisfying clickety-click sound echo through the whole room...
It has the traditional layout, and no extended functions or wheels.
At work, I surreptitiously switched keyboards late one evening and took a Dell AT102W keyboard from a workstation that nobody was using at the time, to replace whatever over-designed spongy quiet keyboard was attached to mine. It's not as good as what I have at home, but it's far better than most new ones that I've tried.
Helen on February 11, 2005 5:29 AMWay back in '85 I got an IBM 101- keyboard. The Russian Iron type someone called it. I've gone through at least 10 pc's, but have kept the same keyboard. Their is something about the feel and response that the other keyboards don't even come close. It's not ergo or split, just the standard layout and after all these years works like when I first got it. Why adjust to something else?
I use the MS Natural Keyboard Pro too. Tried some other ones, but keep coming back.
"What keyboard areas are "sacred" to you, as a developer?"
The Ins-Del-Home-End-PgUp-PgDown cluster. I need it on a 3x2 array, and it has to be absolutely *alone*, not side by side with anything or surrounded by any other keys. I had a keyboard at work who had a 3x3 array, being the Suspension, Power Down and another one the three extra buttons. The result: I ended up hitting Power down everytime I wanted to del anything! Solution: a little screwdriver and the surgical removal of the offender keys.
I also think the BackSpace key is quite crucial: I need it BIG. And allow me a little heresy: I've always thought a design error to have Ctrl + C + X + V for the copy, cut and paste operations. There are times, when being in a hurry, that I want to copy something and I cut it, or the other way around...
"How important are the extra multimedia functions such as sleep, calculator, scrollwheel, volume control, etc? Do you use this stuff frequently? Rarely? Never?"
I don't mind those things. As long as they don't interfere with the "normal" 102 keys, I'm fine. I recently bought a Genius keyboard with an integrated calcutator and it's quite useful, though.
"Does it really matter if your keyboard is wireless?"
I don't trust wireless devices.
"Does an ergonomic layout help?"
I don't like them. I can't get used to the split keyboard. What I *do* like and recommend is the extended wrist suppport at the base of the keyboard.
"What keyboard(s) do you recommend, and why?"
At home I use a fancy a href="http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/ES/EN,CRID=2166,CONTENTID=5011"Logitech/a, quite good. At work, since we have Dell computers, I have the simple black Dell keyboard; which I like a lot: simple, everything in place and of the appropiate size.
Carlos Perez on February 11, 2005 5:57 AMhttp://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/en/hhkeyboard/
$300?! With those tiny arrow keys specific to a single model, and no PgUp/PgDn cluster?
Jeff Atwood on February 11, 2005 7:00 AMAaargh!! They've discontinued the MS Natural Keyboard Pro?? Tell me it's not true.
Yes - my requirements are exactly what you described. Ergo-shape, PageUp/PageDown at the right hand end of a rectangular block. Inverted-T arrow keys. How hard is that to get? Are they morons? How could they discontinue a keyboard that has all that?
Dominic Cronin on February 11, 2005 7:18 AMAll I want is a regular (NOT MANGLED!) keyboard, split into two SEPERATE pieces (either connected by a wire, or each being a seperate USB device). No funny wrist-rests, no wierd angles, just a normal keyboard, split into two parts. That way, I can get both my hands straight and actually be comfortable typing. Why can't I buy this? Why?
Michael Kohne on February 11, 2005 8:02 AMNope.
Tog, 1989:
We’ve done a cool $50 million of R D on the
Apple Human Interface. We discovered, among
other things, two pertinent facts:
o Test subjects consistently report that keyboarding is faster than mousing.
o The stopwatch consistently proves mousing is faster than keyboarding.
http://asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html
For my part, I remove these keycaps from my keyboards and thus avoid all kinds of inadvertent errors:
Caps Lock
Insert
Delete
Scroll Lock
Windows (2)
Menu
Num Lock
Use it or lose it, I say.
Carl Manaster on February 11, 2005 8:18 AMHi Jeff,
you mentioned that we as developers use PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, Ins, Del key a lot. That's the reason I have the mouse on the left side. Yes, that's right...left side though I am right-handed. The advantage of having your mouse on the left side is that you don't have to leave it just press the buttons mentioned above. Once have got used to it, it's soo much better. You've got to try it and you'll never come back having it on the right side. If you do do this than you should know that you can copy with ctrl+insert, paste with shift+insert. Haven't found a shortcut to cut on the right side of the keyboard. So there is basically no disadvantage.
I haven't had a good experience with my wireless mouse, because the battery died to quickly on my mouse. I don't care about layout and special keys on my keyboard.
Hermann Klinke on February 11, 2005 9:32 AMMS Natural Keyboard Elite for me.
I have like 3 of them laying around the house.
I bring one to client sites if I'm going to be there a while. Typing on a normal layout keyboard seems so crampt. My mistake level goes way up.
I'm still using whatever non-ergo rectangular keyboard I'm given. I'm fine with that but I need to switch to an ergo.
Not too long ago I worked with a bunch of super-seasoned C++ hackers who used Kinesis Ergo keyboards. They have programmable footswitches so you don't have to reach for the mouse. Kinda surprised they haven't been mentioned on this page yet.
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm
David Grant on February 11, 2005 11:30 AMYeah, these are the ones with the foot switch:
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm
$300, though? ouch. I'd like to try before I buy on something so radically different
http://asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html
I have a couple problems with this:
A) that research was done in 1989. That predates Windows 3.0, even. I think the abuse of the GUI (and mousing) hadn't even begun at that point. I'd like to see Tog using some of these insane all-Flash website interfaces.
B) "And, in fact, I find myself on the opposite side in at least one instance, namely editing. By using Command X, C, and V, the user can select with one hand and act with the other. Two-handed input. Two-handed input can result in solid productivity gains"
Basically programmers are an exception, and I agree-- they are. I said that up front. That's why we're the only people on the planet who seem to care where the PgUp/PgDn cluster is, or that our F-keys aren't remapped to the "Open eBay and buy Beanie Babies" function.
Jeff Atwood on February 11, 2005 12:36 PMMy favorite keyboard is the IBM TrackPoint IV 104-key keyboard.
The trick to making it comfortable is to invert the keyboard - raise the front of the keyboard about 3/4 of an inch, keeping the back flat, and put a gel pad in front of the keyboard - works great, very comfortable.
Hard to find but a great keyboard..
Here's one I was able to find:
http://www.cmishop.com/store/ShowDetails.asp?txtProductName=01K1260-BXtxtMfgPartNo=01K1260nCategorySubID=125CategoryID=9txtSiteTrack=
It's not about ME-- it's about what you guys like! But since you asked..
Microsoft Wireless Bluetooth keyboard/mouse combo?
Very pretty, but mangled PgUp/PgDn cluster makes it unusable for me.
My favorite keyboard is the IBM TrackPoint IV 104-key keyboard.
Why trackpoint? You use the trackpoint functionality?
I'm taking a serious look at the TouchStream LP
It has no keys-- it's a membrane. Usually that's bad in an Atari 400 kind of way. But it appears to also be a mouse, eg the entire surface is touch sensitive? I dunno about that, I'd definitely have to try it.
Jeff Atwood on February 12, 2005 5:57 AMYou know, it pisses me off that major keyboard companies feel they HAVE to modify the PgUp/PgDn cluster to make their keyboards smaller, then LEAVE THE GINORMOUS, STUPID NUMERIC KEYPAD UNTOUCHED.
Who uses the numeric keypad! Kill that to save major space, and leave our freaking PgUp/PgDn cluster alone!
Jeff Atwood on February 12, 2005 5:59 AMRight now, I'm also using a Natural Pro keyboard.
However, I'm taking a serious look at the TouchStream LP ( http://fingerworks.com/lp_product.html ). There's a shop ~40 minutes away that has a demo model that I might try out soon. Yes, I know it's expensive ($345 shipped), but think about it: how much time per day do you spend working at your keyboard? Five hours? Ten hours? More? When you look at it in terms of hours-of-use per dollar, not skimping on your keyboard makes a heck of a lot of sense, for the same reason that it makes sense to buy a nice big monitor or two instead of using a tiny 15" craptastic CRT...
They also have excellent resale value on eBay; they usually sell for $300, sometimes more, so from that perspective, all you've got to lose is fifty bucks or so...
Really, people, $300 isn't THAT hard to rationalize away... just hard enough that I haven't bought one just yet ;)
It still looks (and sounds) awfully cool. Heck, at the rate my Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer eats batteries, this keyboard would pay for itself in, what, thirty years? :)
Ben Karel on February 12, 2005 10:14 AMA few extra notes: for those obsessed with configurability: you can use their software to remap the position and function of every single key on the keyboard, both letter keys and function keys and other stuff too; you can also configure gestures to your heart's content.
The keyboard can be used ergonomically (tented) or flat on your desk... apparently most people enjoy using it most on their lap, since it functions as keyboard and mouse together.
Has the sleep/volume/multimedia functions as alternates on the function keys.
If you look closely at the keyboard ( http://fingerworks.com/images/products/TouchStreamSansFrame.gif ) you can see that the right plate has extra programmer's symbols ( !=, //, +, [, etc ) on the main keys; by dropping your left-hand's four fingers on QWER, those programmer's symbols can be typed directly instead of using pinky-reaches. Very very cool.
Ben Karel on February 12, 2005 10:22 AMAs a matter of fact, I *ONLY* use the numeric keypad for navigation (numlock OFF). I cut my teeth on XT keyboards, and I'm extremely efficient with the keypad configuration of PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, and arrows. If I need to type a long list of numbers (rare), Numlock is just a keystroke away.
Advantage: they can screw around with the configuration of the middle block all they want, but the numeric keypad is, with the exception of the addition of /, *, and Enter, pretty much the same as it has always been.
Disadvantages: I hate laptops, and my coworkers hate me for forgetting to turn their Numlock back on after helping them on their workstation. At least I never converted to Dvorak, I'd probably have a riot on my hands.
Richard Tallent on February 13, 2005 8:46 AMI can't tell you how long I had to search to find some used MS Internet Keyboard Pros for the last couple of developers we added. Good design and Mac drivers. I mean, we can't be the only guys doing cross platform development. I can't think of another keyboard that has good drivers for the Mac so that the keys map properly as well as a usb hub for the mouse. You do know that most usb KVMs only have one usb port don't you?
Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro is still the champ amongst keyboards. However, supplies are now getting scarce. I had to get mine from France, which doesn't actually matter since I am using it to write Dvorak anyway. In fact, it looks pretty much like this: http://www.debianuniverse.com/chapterimages/03/images-thumbs/05dvorak.jpeg
Although it has the multimedia keys, I find the excellent WinKey utility better for that purpose. The USB hub come in handy too, even if it's not USB2. I guess that is the reason why it was dropped from subsequent models.
Wireless keyboards just seem pointless; how many feets are you sitting away from your screen?
I don't have any trouble writing on a regular keyboard, but just as I prefer Dvorak layout I equally think ergonometric (i.e. split) keyboards are better. Any yes, higher powers that be intended the number 6 to be on the left side.
If you are in the market for a new keyboard, I can recommend checking out www.keyboardco.com. Not only does this have to be one of the few companies left in the world which provide good service, they are actually quite nice talking to also.
Roland Kaufmann on February 14, 2005 3:54 AMI really like the now obsolete Microsoft Office keyboard. I bought a pair so that I could have the identical keyboard at home and work. It has the cut, copy paste buttons along with a scroll wheel on the left. This makes it very easy for me to use with a mouse. The only annoying 'feature' is the F lock button, which defaults to off making all of the function keys useless until you push it. I rarely use any of the special application keys.
Steven J. Ackerman on February 14, 2005 9:33 AMI am still a huge fan of the Happy hacking Keyboard (blank keytop model). I actually purchsed one and am amazed at how well I can type with it!
No special features, no frills, and no letters printed on the keys. :-)
See http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/en/hhkeyboard/hhkbpro/nokeytop.html for more on it....
Michael Kaplan on February 14, 2005 9:48 AMUntil I read this post a few days ago I didn't realize how keyboards are changing (or have changed). All I know is that I, like yourself, still use an old Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro (mines from Dell) and was wondering why any other Natural style keyboard just didn't "fit". At work they asked around if people would a Natural keyboard and said sure, then I can take mine back home with me. Then they delivered the Microsoft Natural Elite keyboard! What a piece of junk! Just like you pointed out, the two main key clusters are messed up.
So now the question? Where can we get the discontinued keyboard? I feel like I should now get two or three just stock up.
Erik Lane on February 14, 2005 10:31 AMThe Logitech Internet Navigator is great. I prefer this keyboard over any ergo model that I've had or tried. It has a very low profile that is easy on the wrists and has great tactile qualities. We use them at most of our dev workstations (which lets folks sit at another desk to debug, troubleshoot, etc. with minimal distraction).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B00006HMPG/ref=dp_product-image-only_0/
Key placements are "normal" including the important F-key clusters (split between F4 and F5 is a biggie for me) and the 3x2 grid with INS, DEL, et. al. And there are Win logo keys on both sides: I use the right one most often, which is absent on many layouts these days.
I believe it was replaced by the Elite, which I have not tried but would expect to be just as good. It looks almost identical other than color and a dial for volume.
FWIW, I've been through five or six laptops over the past two years and I've found that I'm becoming more adept are adapting to new keyboard layouts. I currently run around with a Toshiba M200 tablet PC, which is a superb piece of hardware. It took me a few days to get used to the keyboard on it but now I am almost as proficient with it as on my Logitech. Perhaps finding that "perfect" keyboard is not as important as your attitude toward whatever keyboard you buy / receive (basic ergonomics notwithstanding).
derekhat on February 15, 2005 1:51 AMMicrosoft Natural Keyboard Pro is also my choice - I hadn't realised supplies were so short, I'll have to remember to buy a spare one if I see them anywhere! I've had two of these great keyboards and, while the USB1-only and #6 placement is annoying, the only real gripe I have is that the left hand control key often sticks. It happens on both my Pro's, I wonder if it's just me or have others noticed it too?
Agree with all your other points - the arrows and page up/down must be layed out traditionally (I made the mistake of buying cheaper version of the MS Natural Pro that had that weird layout - ick), and the hub is really useful.
Oh, that evil F-Lock affliction that affects some keyboards can be repaired. Check out:
http://www.mvps.org/jtsang/flock.html
That'll get back the function keys as they were intended to be used!
MattyT on February 15, 2005 8:34 AMi too am using the ms natural keyboard pro. i'm really picky about having a large backspace button, a "\" button above the enter key and not those large inverted shaped enter keys. those keyboard layouts are a pain to use.
JacobM on February 17, 2005 3:54 AMYou can't beat the Sun Type 5c keyboard in terms of layout and tactile quality of the keys.
The "Happy Hacking" keyboard tried to emulate some aspects of the Type 5c, with mixed results.
michaely on February 17, 2005 10:22 AMJust ran across this slightly relevant cartoon:
http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/filing.010.html
Carl Manaster on February 19, 2005 7:59 AMI noticed the control key sticks too, MattyT. All the MS Natural keyboards that I've had have done the same thing for the last 7 years that I've used it on different OS's: FreeBSD, Windows 95, ME, 2000, XP. I'm not sure if its a mechanical or hardware issue though. A reboot seems to always fix it.
Marv on March 17, 2005 2:27 AMI've felt your pain about a year ago guys... and I have FOUND *THE* replacement keyboard. I've bought about 10 different keyboards to test, and this is the ONLY one which is 100% identical to the Natural Pro (minus USB + USB Hubs). Before you skip this because it's not USB, just buy a PS2-USB adapter for $9.00 which I did and it works flawless.
And the keyboard? The F8E208-BLK...
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=Section_Id=100pcount=Product_Id=98781
Now CAUTION: Belkin has several ergo-boards out there. I bought their other ones and they are pure crap. The keys are way to soft and you can't even tell you are pressing them down. Anyway, I picked up this board and honestly it's 100% flawless in its design and feel compared to a Natural Pro. Plus it's black! (which I prefer over white).
Well anyway, I highly suggest you pick one up for yourself if you're feeling neglected by the idiots at microsoft for discontinuing our fav board. And I give you my word you won't be dissapointed.
And here is a link to the F8E208-BLK for $19 bucks: http://www.provantage.com/buy-7belv00f-ergoboard-108-key-ps2-split-design-black-belkin-game-pads-keyboards-mice-f8e208-blk-shopping.htm
Matt on March 18, 2005 7:37 AMGreat thread. Just wondering why the Logitech Ultra X was rejected.
Ken on June 15, 2005 1:51 PMI use original Microsoft Natural keyboards (typically salvaged from old pcs in the hallway). Before that I liked the keyboard that came with my vt220. A usb hub is a good feature, but not necessary as one of my monitors has that already. I specifically do not want it to be wireless. I could easily live with the loss of the number pad to save space, but the arrow keys and the orientation of page/up/down, home, end, and insert/delete must be standard. Matt's pointer to the belkin keyboard looks interesting as a alternative.
My wife is a Mac user and often seems to like using the number pad and the enter key attached it. I'm not sure if that is a Mac thing or something specific to her.
Steve Steiner on August 15, 2005 1:55 PMAnyone try this:
a href="http://www.daskeyboard.com/"http://www.daskeyboard.com//a
Or this one:
a href="http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/"http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus//a
Depending on how the second one worked... I wouldn't mind playing with one...
Eric D. Burdo on September 6, 2005 8:23 AMI have the MS Wireless Natural Multimedia Keyboard, similar to the one above but it is black. I too hate the F-Lock buttons and prefer to have the standard F1, F2, F3, etc. I found this site which has a registry hack that will remap those keys back to the standard and the function keys will work as function keys no matter what the F-Lock status is.
a href="http://www.mvps.org/jtsang/flock-e.html"http://www.mvps.org/jtsang/flock-e.html/a
jbremer on February 3, 2006 1:22 AMI have to say the proper keyboard is pertinent aspect of efficiency. Sadly I only type on Dvorak so must convert every thing I touch to this layout, and am an avid mac user, and redo every aspect on a wintel machine to match my preference, even though I only wanted to show someone how to do a simple task like renewing a web page or copying and pasting without going to the mouse.
Curt on February 8, 2006 8:07 AMI have written a review of the Kinesis Classic Contoured Keyboard:
http://www.bobulous.org.uk/imho/kinesisClassic.html
I do like the way the key wells are laid out, but I largely agree that some of the keys moved under the thumb are hard to use.
Bob on April 13, 2006 6:39 AMWhat I want to find is something like this:
http://www-3.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-4WKSWX.html?doctype=
but in wireless.
It's a small keyboard with trackpoint built in. I used a thinkpad for several years, and loved the fact I could code without having to use a mouse for a lot of tasks.
The only thing I can find that comes close is this:
Close, but it's not wireless, and it's got that stupid touchpad in it (I hate touchpads). I've googled and searched and found nothing that meets my quest so far...
Robert (n4ixt)
n4ixt on April 24, 2006 10:28 AMI just got a Microsoft Natural Ergo Keyboard 4000 but have not done a ton of programming with it yet.
The backspace is in the right spot.
I keep hitting Tab instead of Q though.
This keyboard is quiet too!! Nice touch.
Mikel on May 17, 2006 11:14 AMAlot of coments here but ill type in my 2 cents. I also was a big fan of the Microsoft natural keyboard pro. But after years of use and beer spills the keys started to fall of and loose function so yeserday i went an got myself a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000. As much as i hat microsoft i must admit this is a very comfortable keyboard. the design keeps my
wrists straight and my fingers dont go numb anymore :) The F keys do have the stupid functions attached but i use linux so they dont work(fortunatly) eventually ill recompile my kernel so i can map the extra buttons to whatever i want . It was about 60 bucks but it is the cadillac of keyboards.
oh, forgot that I had a question for Ross, who mentions that he uses linux, and eventually he'll recompile the kernel so he can custom map the keys.
How does recompiling the kernel allow you to remap keyboard key functions? I always recompile the kernel when the latest release comes out, and am familiar with all the compile time options of the most recent kernel 2.6.17 including the beyond patchsets and don't recall anything about remapping keyboard functions. In fact it sounds silly to have such capability in a kernel recompile.
Either Ross knows not what he speaks of, or I must be some clueless kernel hacker that needs to be seriously enlightened. Please enlighten me ross!
arias on July 30, 2006 9:13 AMOkay, my bad on this one. I've since discovered a number of kernel patches that are supposed to provide support for this keyboard on linux ... the most recent of which is from liyi on the lkml mailing list in case in anyone is interested.
There are actually two patches that need to be applied, the first patching hid-simple.c, then the next providing the functionality in usb/input/usbnek4k.c
I've also discovered some other patches written some months ago from different authors, but since this is the most recent, I'm trying liyi's first (compiling at the moment).
arias on July 30, 2006 9:29 AMI was happy with a very generic EzKey for years. It survived spills; kept decent touch...
The "Yahoo! PC Desktop Two" I may get back to. It was on clearance, but just didn't fit needs at the time. Enormous.
Some no-name, I _think_ I just saw branded "Durabrand". Simple 104-key +3 usless dome buttons. But I've essentially worn it out in about 6 months. I have no idea what the one I have was branded.
Picked up a Micro Innovations KB565BL 126-key tonight that seems promising, provided I can map the 22 extras to something useful. It comes with a USB-to-PS2 dongle. Claims to be _sealed_ against cats and coffee.
With Fvwm2, the logo keys mapped to Meta-4, and "menu" key mapped to Menu with appropriate bindings, but it would be nice to throw some controls and bind complex scripts to the fancy top row. What I need is more meta keys, without segregating Shift/Alt/Control/Logo keys between left and right. Comes with a USB-to-PS2 dongle.
Seems that I only get a couple months, with most keyboards, after getting fully used to the touch, before something stops -- or keycaps start going blank.
Ol Joe on August 8, 2006 1:47 PMBeing a KN(tm) from the 80s, I constantly bemoan one of the great losses in keyboard land. Namely, the dropping of the F keys from the left side of the keyboard. I heard there was some lady who sued DEC because she got RSI and everybody freaked. The degree of wrist pronation to the left was nothing compared to working the inverted T, but I guess they felt like they had to do something after paying out Big $ to some whiner. The F keys were right there under your left pinky, but now everyone's desk is lopsided over to the right with nothing for your left hand to do but hit the tab and shift key (and the caps lock by mistake). The Maxi-switch Prokey II was the last great implementation (with extra keys around the inverted T, remapping, and EZ macro creation). They dropped the model and I had to resort to the Gateway Anykey, of which I bought about 6 or so to tide me over for the rest of my life. (My Maxi-switch is still in great shape, though). The F keys on top are so far out of reach that they require arm, shoulder, and back muscles to reach them. Not so bad if you press F5 to open your email app, but in an IDE, it's like working in mud. At work, I use Macro Express to duplicate all the function keys to the keypad. A moderately successful workaround. (Macro Express utterly rules, BTW. Check it out.)
Anyone have opinions on the left-side F keys? I'd go nuts if some company resurrected them.
Zernk on October 12, 2006 7:03 AMThanks for the tip Karson. Two Hundred Bucks! Supply/Demand I guess. I'm glad to see somebody is actually making lefty f keys.
Zernk on November 15, 2006 7:35 AMZernk, what about the Logitech G15 keyboard? it has left-side F keys..
Jeff Atwood on November 15, 2006 8:54 AMI've gone over to the Logitech Cordless Desktop Comfort Laser, after using Microsoft pro for many years, and I like it a lot better. It feels very much more comfortable to me, and I definitely type faster. The mouse that goes with it is rubbish though, as far as I'm concerned, because the scroll wheel is very light to wheelie, but very hard to press down. This means that it takes concentration to push down the scroll wheel without wheeling it. Since I seem to spend half my time opening links in a new tab in firefox by pressing down on the wheel, this is a major nuisance. Like an earlier poster I also use the mouse left handed, both so it's closer in to my hand and also so I can mouse and enter in quick succession, but this mouse is particularly unusable for a left hand use as it has a button on the side which it takes concentration not to press when doing a left click.
At present the Logitech has had to go back for a replacement, as the mouse didn't sit flat on the desk ( warped base !? on top of all its other failings! ) and I'm back to the ms pro, and I'm really missing that great keyboard! The ms pro seems somehow awkward after only 2 weeks with the Logitech. It seems as if the heels of my hands need to be half off the pro to be in the 'right' position - I notice that the Belkin mentioned earlier has whopping heel rests. I was looking for a gel pad to use with the pro when I found this page, 'cos it's nice to have options, but all the ones I have found are no wider than the existing plastic 'deck' on the pro. Anyone found a really big gel pad for this keyboard?
I use a logitech keyboard with the larger delete key. I have gotten the hang of it pretty well and often prefer it to the more traditional configuration.
As for the alternate function key assignments, I think every keyboard in my house has it but I doubt anyone's used the features. As for volume controls/etc, I have my pc hooked up to a stereo, and as with most audio systems, it has volume control on it, so I want my pc to pump max and control the output via the speakers.
I work in a call center for Dell, and I use a Labtec "Standard Keyboard Plus" that I managed to relocate late one night from another station. Very simple, basic design, inverted T arrows, 3x2 insert cluster (not that I use it that much for what I do), three sets of four function keys, etc.
The thing I like about this keyboard is it more closely resembles the keys of a notebook, which is where my typing and keyboard-only navigation thrive. Much of my computer experience was gained on a notebook, with flat keys that still push down a fair amount and have a satisfying spring-back to them. So this keyboard was the best I could find that would emulate that.
I will admit: I'm no software designer. As I said before, I'm just a low-level call-center employee. However, using a keyboard makes up about 85-90% of my working day, (and who knows how much of my non-working night) so I definitely know what I like. In work, I'm mostly copying and pasting order numbers and customer numbers into data bases, online forms, etc. Unfortunately, most of the text I'm copying comes straight from an html document, so I have no way of selecting any amount of text with keyboard-only commands. None that I've found, at least. If anyone knows of any way to highlight HTML with a keyboard, I'm all ears!
The Dell Dude on December 29, 2006 5:34 AMhere is the answer to all our prayers (mine at least ;-) :
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/
MS have gone back to 'normal' with their latest ergo keyboard. Split, nice key feel, and F-Keys that do F-things, inverted-T cursors, and block of 6 standard home,pgup etc. I like mine anyway :
Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=043
I've got myself the MS natural keyboard 4000. Its a DREAM to work with. picked it up on ebay for 18$. Try it you like it!
Erik on January 17, 2007 2:45 AMOk, here is my $.50
* What keyboard areas are "sacred" to you, as a developer?
A absolute must: Ins-Del-Home-End-PgUp-PgDn cluster untouched - being 3 cols by 2 rows with no surrounding 'multimedia' keys and having enough space. And, of course, arrow keys must be located in proper place and shaped as inverted T.
Preffered: Functional keys better be full-sized. Backspace is big, backslash located directly below it.
* How important are the extra multimedia functions such as sleep, calculator, scrollwheel, volume control, etc? Do you use this stuff frequently? Rarely? Never?
Not important at all, I'm too adapted to hotkeys. However since I've bought my last keyboard (see details below) I use one or two keys to popup/hide WinAmp.
* Does it really matter if your keyboard is wireless?
What is the reason for having one? I wonder how someone could type in code sitting on a sofa 3 meters away from monitor :)
* Does an ergonomic layout help?
Not in my case - I sill prefer plain layout.
* What keyboard(s) do you recommend, and why?
The absolute champion for me is Genius SlimStar PRO (http://www.genius.hu/kepek/bill/nagy/SlimStar-Pro.jpg). It has really convenient notebook-style keys. And, of course, all the properties I've mentioned above :)
Thanks
Dmitry on January 18, 2007 8:57 AMI'm not a shill, but Best Buy has the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 in today's (1/21/07) Sunday ad for $29.99, down from $59.99. I had already purchased one on eBay for $19 ($34 after shipping) just a few days ago. I may re-sell the one from eBay, or keep both, just to have a spare. I haven't decided yet. FWIW, I owned the original Microsoft Natural Keyboard (IIRC, the first keyboard with the "reserved for future use" Windows key.) in the pre-Win95 days. I still have it in storage, although it's become quite discolored over the years. The difference between this keyboard and the Natural Pro that was discontinued in '01 was the row of blue keys at the top, which were missing on the original.
CLB on January 21, 2007 4:42 AMThanks for that. I immediately went to Best Buy and bought a new ergo 4000 keyboard (the one I bought back in May 2006 was returned and I purchased a different one) for $30.
This is a nice keyboard...very quiet. I like an audible click so I programmed a button to turn a click sound on and I programmed another button to turn it off. I used Clickey from http://www.grc.com/freeware/clickey.htm which is really awesome.
Mikel on January 25, 2007 7:59 AMOur host seems to like it too!
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000400.html
It's the new standard :) I spent weeks reading about keyboards, and trying them, and settled on this, after a lot of false starts. I had to buy it sight-unseen, after looking in vain in 3 countries for a shop that stocked one (I was travelling anyway) Best gamble ever.
colmob on January 28, 2007 6:49 AMMan. Thanks Jeff for the pointer to the g15 last November. (I kinda forgot to check back here for a while). It looks great. I'm going to order one from Newegg ($69). Sahweeeet!
Zernk on February 9, 2007 1:22 AMI've tried a lot of keyboards and I've been consistently disappointed with most of the rubber dome crap that's shipped these days. However, I'd like to point out a possibility that no one has mentioned. I realize that you're Windows and PC-oriented most of the time and that you also prefer an ergo/split keyboard, but I've been really happy using a plain Mac wired keyboard. It's USB and works just fine through KVM switches. It feels very nice and does not have the frilly surroundings that most of the newer "internet" keyboards do.
Something to consider: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=BBE51B76nplm=M9034LL%2FA
One very important thing for me is the 'Ctrl' key is positioned extreme bottom left.. I bought a slim line that had the 'Fn' and 'Ctrl' keys were inverted and have lost count of the times a selected piece of text is replaced by the letter 'c' rather than being copied. Guess I should be thankful that 'Fn + C' is not 'format drive' or something...
Nic on March 28, 2007 8:29 AM# What keyboard areas are "sacred" to you, as a developer?
ALL OF IT! Do not remap my keys, add keys or buttons within the 101,2,4 key layout(exception-stick mouse) They get in the way. I had one with 3 media keys below delete end and page down and I got rid of it after 45 minutes, and 4 reboots where I hit Power instead of Delete.
# How important are the extra multimedia functions such as sleep, calculator, scrollwheel, volume control, etc? Do you use this stuff frequently? Rarely? Never?
never
# Does it really matter if your keyboard is wireless?
I can see the point in my work, where the wiring is often constrained beyond a reasonable measure, but at home, no. For a media center used in a home theater maybe.
# Does an ergonomic layout help?
Resounding NO! I have no problems with extended typing(in "correct" and otherwise positions with my home keyboard, some with standard pos keyboards, and much pain with "ergonomic" splts. If I could put the ergo split to an angle which worked for me it might be different.
# What keyboard(s) do you recommend, and why?
You have heard from one fo my ilk before. I fall squarely into the "Russian 10 lb" keyboard which doubles as a blunt instrument and works after a double homicide category. Best part:keyboard previously referred to as Russian which says "Made in the USA" on it. I have gone through a total of 1 and am on the second. The first was a used keyboard from a university used equipment center(read heavy use pre me) and started with sticking everything on the right due to cola. Some cleanup later and it worked for years. I have one now I got for $3 from a used computer store, and after a couple of showers(yes, literally. it's easier than the dishwasher) and 2 days drying upside down it works great. I would also recomomend a previously mentioned mechanical with the IBM trackpoint in it. I used a Thinkpad for quite some time and prefer the joystick to a glidepad or mouse.
I admit to only estracurricular programming at this time, I too am a phone monkey, so at work I have various MS n"ERGO"keyboards with the jacked arrows and ins, del.... We also have the cheapest of the free standard keyboards seeded thruought the call center. The job should be 75%-95% entering data and using keyboards to move, but due to poor upper managment and client decisions, we use as the primary account review program a .swx file!. Needless to say I spend a disproportionate amount of time using the mouse. Also, having used the "ergo" ms keyboards I find theat they cause my wrists to hurt very quickly(10-20 min concentrated typing) wheras the pos boards it is 3-4 hours, and with the aforementioned home keyboard have been known tot ype between 20 and 50 wpm for 13 straight hours with no pain, discomfort, or other issues.
If I had the money the Datahand is something I would like to try. Last time I checked, the home version was just shy $1,000.00. It seems to me one of about 3 methods for truely ergonomic keyboarding. The things I think are needed to be truely ergonomic are to adjust for different hand sizes, adjust for different shoulder widths, adjust for different default wrist angles. The ergonomic keyboard from microsoft(all I have used, from expensive to cheap) have NO ADJUSTABILITY! This means they cannot accomodate the differences inherent with someone of a different shoulder width or arm length. I am sure there was a lot of work done to figure ot the angles which woudl be best for the average person, and that for the average size and shape person they should work fine. I am built larger than that, and use of them(except for the numeric keypad, which has no changes other than the built in wrist wrest) honestly causes me pain after a short time. Well, I seem to have wandered, sorry about that.
Dyslexic on March 29, 2007 6:24 AMYou REALLY gotta have a laptop for a comfortable keyboard. The thinkpads have all the keys in the right place (even the Pg/del/home group so often "conveniently removed" from smaller keyboards). Plus, it has the short keys to help speed up typing speed, with the mouse (however unneeded) right in the middle of the keyboard! I do very much so agree that the keyboard should be able to be used for all purposes, I also believe that programs and utiilities need to be quick to access. So all computer should have thier most often used programs mapped to keys. (firefox was opened with winkey-period)
truk on March 29, 2007 7:52 AMI highly recommend the Logitech G15 gaming keyboard... it's affordable, not mangled, has no "f-lock" that makes so many of us mad... and also has programmable macro keys at the left hand side of the keyboard. these macro keys are great for software development/debugging/etc. and can also be used in 3 different modes and set up with profiles for specific applications
also has a built in monochrome lcd pixel based display which you can use to display system resources... what's playing on your favourite media player, (you can even code your own applet for the lcd panel), you can even use it to disable those annoying windows keys if you switch it onto "gaming" mode... The adjustable illuminated backlight lets you code in any lighting situation.
Not only does it look very cool, it is very functional, not mangled, and has extra features people can actually USE.
As both a software dev and a gamer, I use every function on this keyboard and I'm sure you all will too...
Again... I highly recommend the Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard.
Retails for about $50-80 USD
It's great for a gamer and for the same
http://gregory.drabble.club.fr/g15.jpg
If you like the old Soviet Era layout and feel, but want USB and availability:
Take a look at the keyboard that come bundles with the Wyse winterm 1200's:
Micro switch keys, solid feel, proper layout, and a built in PS2 port to stick a mouse in.
I do however rate the old SUN 5c's though, if you like non-flimsy keyboards, find someone with an old Sparc and check one out. I think there are adapters available for them to connect to pee-cees.
Sproggit on April 16, 2007 2:31 AMAs a Flex UI engineer, and an avid reader, please let me suggest that in the future you gather real arguments before wholly discrediting Flash as a platform.
I was really quite surprised by your backhanded remark. Not everyone is still making circa-1996 splash intros you know.
hello from Stephen D Waner to all who read and write in the mirror image from right to left, the medical term is called Strephosymbolia,
i have been in the process of prototypeing a keyboard that is to my range of vision, as of 1990 after a TBI i suffered from this as well as Daltonism (color blindness), if this strikes an intrest then visit
www.arkayengravers.com and check out the STREPHO-VIEW keyboard, the concept was so easy that i thought if it worked for me why not others,
swaner1@cox.net
check out the strepho-view keyboard at www.arkayengravers.com or google key word dyslexic keyboard , strephosymbolia , keep in mind that this board is for those who read and write in the true mirror image
Stephen Waner on June 27, 2007 7:01 AMI have a late 90s Compaq keyboard. It's got the Windows keys and everything else like a normal keyboard, except the spacebar. The spacebar is split in two, about a 2:3 split, the right side is space, the left side is backspace!
The best mangled keyboard I've ever used! I frown each time I tap the left side of the spacebar on normal keyboards and a space comes out.
The keyboard can also swap the space-backspace bars and turn into a normal keyboard by using a key combination.
As for normal keyboards, I prefer the kind with the wide backspace, and the wide \ under the backspace.
Igor on August 22, 2007 9:11 AM What keyboard areas are "sacred" to you, as a developer?
Delete, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, Symbols such as {}[]()!";
How important are the extra multimedia functions such as sleep,
calculator, scrollwheel, volume control, etc? Do you use this stuff
frequently? Rarely? Never?
The only multimedia keys I use often are Volume Up/Down and mute. I would probably also use Play/Stop and Back/Forward buttons, but not very often. Any other keys aren't terribly useful.
I mainly use linux anyway and already have keyboard shortcuts to start all my often used software and all without leaving the main keyboard (windows+t = terminal and so on) while multimedia keys make me have to reach.
Does it really matter if your keyboard is wireless?
Yes, it matters because I will not use a wireless keyboard. They are more hassle than their worth.
Does an ergonomic layout help?
Either is fine.
What keyboard(s) do you recommend, and why?
None right now. I'm currently using a Saitek gamers keyboard. It's nice and heavy, has a big space bar, the function keys are a little closer to the main keyboard than most keyboards (which I like, makes it easier to press F5 for compile or whatever). It only has 3 multimedia keys (volume and mute) and a backlight on/off button.
It's nice, but it could still be a lot better.
I couldn't agree more. Quit screwing with my Nav keys! Some people actually need that stuff.
I would add one more criteria, which is key size. I can span an octave with my thumb and index finger. A lot of the newer keyboards have keys that are way too small for me.
I'm sticking with my MS Natural, designed for Windows 95. When the last one gets broken, I guess I'll find another career.
I'm currently using this keyboard:
http://www.enermax.com/english/product_peripherals_detail.asp?PrID=48
I really like notebook style keys for 2 major reasons: tactile feedback and raw speed (from the low profile key travel).
Companies like razer are starting to pick up on the speed preference when it comes to keyboards like: http://www.razerzone.com/index.php?main_page=product_infoproducts_id=76
Unfortunately, I don't really like membrane keyboards (which is like 90% of the boards out there). The reason I don't like membrane keyboards is because they always loose consistency with the keys. Some keys eventually get too stiff others will get too loose, and keys that feel "spongy" are the worse because your fingers don't feel a pressure "click" so you don't know when the key is actually engaged.
Lee on October 14, 2007 9:27 AMI use the saitek eclipse keyboard, mostly because i still game, the only added functionality it has is volume control, but i don't even use that.
Plus it glows in the dark.
The pgup/pgdown area isn't mangled....its not ergonomic though. I've been thinking about upgrading my mouse / keyboard for a bit, im still using the old microsoft laser mouse....although the rubbery gliders on the bottom have literally rubbed away.
Spencer Deinum on March 15, 2008 6:58 AMHi all the intelligents
I liked the discussion above and found it useful.
I have read all this today only and I have something for you
"Hermann Klinke on February 11, 2005 09:32 AM ".
You said that you didn' find a shortcut for cut on right side
it is: shift+del
and other useful shortcuts on the right side are: alt+backspace for undo operation and shift+alt+backspace for redo operation.
though I don't have as much knowledge like all here but I think there is one more keyboard to consider.
It is quite compact and has home,pdup,pgdn and end keys on the right side and an inverted t aroow keys on right corner just like the scroll bars in msword.The keyboard is of a company probably you would have never heard of. it is ENTER. the model no. is AS-2188. It is designed for win 98 but works fine even on windows Vista. It is a USB keyboard.
A funny feature of it is that it does not have a ctrl key on the right. But in its place it has a key which acts as a right click of your mouse which I found useful and quite speed gaining. you don't have to go to the mouse for anything. Its really good.
Davneet Singh Chawla
Davneet Singh Chawla on March 15, 2008 7:16 AMI like a keyboard with dedicated cut, copy and paste buttons. These are very rare. I saw one in a local computer store and bought it immediately.
Avery on March 15, 2008 11:29 AMI have a USB MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000, and I love it. It does have some of the weird Function keys that double as different operations, but there's a key (next to F12) that turns this on and off (and it defaults to On, which is where I leave it usually). It's very comfortable to use, and I find that I do get some use out of the different buttons (such as the Play/Pause button, the Volume controls, Calculator button, etc.)
I use Linux too, and it works straight out of the box (aside from the media keys at the top that you don't need) which is nice - and it's pretty easy to get the other keys recognized. It also has some of the shortcut operations printed on the keys which is nice if you ever forget (apps tend to use the same default key configs, it seems).
Scott on March 16, 2008 1:05 PMWow, this was posted some 3 years ago and is still active. Nice :)
For me the entire keyboard layout is sacred. Thou shall not mess with the F-keys. Thou shall not screw with the arrows. Thou shall not change the size of the delete key. Thou shall not, under any circumstances, change the size of the Enter key. Moving or resizing the backslash key will result in instant and eternal damnation.
At home I've used the same keyboard for about 6 years and am scared of the day it stops working. It is one of first wireless keyboard Logitech made and it is still today better than most other new ones I've used.
It's been a long time since you posted an update to this. What keyboard do you use now? Now and then I peruse Best Buy and friends and have this super cool internets-enabled crap is all they sell.
Nick on March 18, 2008 7:04 AMI use an IBM model 'M', made in 1984. (It is 8 years older than I am!) It is about 10% bigger than modern keyboards tend to be, with large, deep keys. When I type, it leaves a continual metallic musical ringing in the air from the spring-action, clickey-style keys. It weighs a ton, and I love the thing. However, it requires an adapter to connect it with my computer, and two with some of the newer computers. It has every key where the key should go, no fancy 'internet' buttons. I find most keyboards now to be too small for me, as I tend to mash the keys when I type. It was evidently built to last... man, they don't make things like they use to!
DDR on March 19, 2008 3:00 AMFor three years people have been complaining here, and for three years the damned keyboard industry is only making it worse.
Look, wasn't it enough that backspace has, for decades, constantly jumped around four different positions? To the right of Shift, left of Backspace, above Enter, or between Ctrl and Alt.
Isn't it enough that "Power", "Sleep", and "Wake" took the top row above the Insert cluster, pushing "Print Screen"/"Scroll Lock"/"Pause" down to the Insert cluster, screwing me up when I go for the corner where PageUp should be?
What sense does it make for Insert not to be adjacent to Delete? I can't imagine what reason there is to mangle the layout, but if you must mangle it, at least mangle it in a logical manner!
All I want is an unmangled cheap rectangular USB keyboard to keep plugged into my laptop's docking station. Is that so much to ask?
I found one that I really liked, I even used the multimedia functions (which were in separate buttons, instead of taking over for the F-keys), but it failed in a couple month's usage, and the seller was crappy too. Well, I've just gone back to their site and the price is now $6, so I guess I'll just order a bunch of 'em from those jerks.
Rick on March 19, 2008 10:04 AMFor me the only keyboards are the Avant Stellar keyboards (formerly Northgate). They have the one feature I love, function keys down the left side of the keyboard, all twelve of them, so I can chord Ctrl, Alt, Shift and normal codes all with the left hand without undue stretching of fingers. This gives me 48 keys to program for my editor. They also last for 20 years or more (I still use 20yr old ones.)
Dave on March 25, 2008 4:21 AMHere is my choice of keyboard (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/eclipse.htm) the Saitek Eclipse (I have the 'Gamers Keyboard' but it comes to the same thing), it has a very smooth typing action, and all the keys are in the correct place. Volume controls above the num pad are nice too.
Andy on March 28, 2008 6:50 AMI hate the Insert key! It hasn't helped me any. All it does is irritate me while trying to do school work.
~~~~
Akria Nathna A'strta
Akria on April 6, 2008 2:38 AMI'm with Jeff... I have the Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro. I wish they would bring it out of retirement. I have one at home but at work I use the shitty Dell keyboard that came with my PC.
I can't find anything as good as the MS Natural Pro. The new Natural keyboard 4000 (I believe is the model #) is good but missing the USB hub functionality. However, I can live without that since my monitor is a hub as well.
What I really don't like messed with is the inverted T arrow keys. Don't mess with the Insert/Home/PgUp/PgDn/Delete/End keys. Leave them as two rows of three keys in the usual layout. Also don't F**K with the function keys. F5 should by default be refresh, F10-F12 should map to debug step functions in VS. If the marketing geniuses want to change it, then make it clear on the box and make it possible to over-ride.
Louis Duran on April 21, 2008 11:47 AMOh yes: I am not a fan of the ergo keyboards - nor the lightweight piles of crap now sold at sometimes astonishing prices - and i got lucky with my current board:
One morning when I was running, i found an IBM 101 keyboard in a ditch, wet and plastered with brown leaves that had pretty much permiated every possible hole. So I removed the plastic face plate and washed the board down with soap and warm water- let her dry on the kitchen rack, then dug out a AT to ps/2 adapter and plugged her in and never looked back. that was 3 years ago and there are still some crusted leaves under some of the keys: but shes rock solid. likesay i could probably use it to inflict some blunt force trauma and proceed typing without pause.
i left the front plate off so it even looks a bit deconstructed and modern- since its actually got a nice black plastic backplate: sort of darth vader ish vs the horribly faded beige of the front plate.
if you are dissapointed with modernity- return to that which you find most loving- go dig a 101 out of a landfill-
josh on April 28, 2008 6:12 AMNot sure how alive this thread of comments is (a LOT of links are broken), but a couple things occur to me:
1. There should be a company that sells customizable keyboards (that click). Not just what letters/functions go on what keys, but where the keys go. I'm sure if the process could be streamlined enough, it could even break into the mainstream market. Maybe Optimus can do this?
2. I am very interested in learning to use Dvorak, or some other, more efficient layout. To me, it is the 'metric' system to a world that uses the 'english' (aka QWERTY) system. Just like the US-metric switch is gradually happening in America (experts first, trickling down to consumer goods, and hopefully further), I think that programmers need to lead the charge. I see two drawbacks:
-It will take a few weeks to make the switch, during which I will have poor skill in both systems
-If I want to use someone else's (or a public) computer, I will have to either a) go into OS-level settings and remap keys, b) open a web application that translates, and ^x, ^v, c) retain fluency in QWERTY, or d) carry around a thumbdrive with a piece of software that I can run on any computer (without installing) that translates from one system to another.
d) seems the best solution, but I don't know where to start. What language has the options I'm looking for? I'm willing to learn it, but I don't know if it exists (or can exist until Windows changes fundamentally to open source).
unCreative on May 13, 2008 12:16 PMI used a Sun keyboard for assignments when I was studying. I got really fast using it, it had the right height, pressure and satisfaction sound (click) when pressed. Only problem was that they switched the "old" american keyboards in for new swedish ones and that totally screwed the layout since it added three keys for , and (aring, auml, ouml), before that we had to use Alt Gr(-aph) for those letters but it didn't slow me down any.
The variant "Sun Type 7 Keyboard" looks like having the same layout, but lacking the other design we had (shape, color, feel).
I'm mostly satisfied with keys being in the right place and having proper size (and I need the little numpad on the right). I have a hard time to like keybaords on laptops since they are all screwed up.
At the end of the day I find the secret to a good keyboard is to get one and stick with it. Through out my IT life I have been through many and usually find them slightly different. I once had a keyboard where the pg up/dn cluster was immediately above the cursor keys, another where the layout of the cluster was slightly different. Absolute hell!!
From my dads point of view the function buttons are essential. It would take him forever to get a web browser up without the button!
I once worked along side a developer who had a maltron keyboard (http://www.maltron.com/) it was the weirdest thing I had ever seen but he swore by it. His reason for buying it was due to severe RSI. He also said the layout was superb once you got used to it. He could knock out code quicker than I could eat MMs. As it was so expensive and it reduced his RSI he took it everywhere so never had changing keyboard woes.
TedTrippin on July 9, 2008 7:21 AMin english pleazze
blahbahuda on July 12, 2008 9:35 AMyour stupid!
TomShloop on July 19, 2008 6:29 AMOnly nec pk-kb015 and datadesk smartboard upc5000 can be called ergo keyboards, all logitech, microsoft, acer, goldtouch, belkin, etc are rubbish, but pk-kb015 and upc5000 are also not enough good, look at this: http://diyism.com/?action=hardware.keyboard
diyism on August 16, 2008 5:11 AMboring give me excitment somthing that people will talk about and us alot somthing that kids will alway stay on the computer blow are freaken mind!!!!
rooseline on September 19, 2008 4:57 AMRE: Does it matter if your keyboard is wireless
Depends on how your stuff is setup. Myself, I have my computer connected to my TV in my living room. However, to address issues of noise and heat, I put my computer in the next room. (Ran the cables through the window, behind the tv.)
I found the Logitech PS3 MediaBoard, and now I wouldn't use anything else. It's USB, doesn't need drivers (Windows will do so automatically), wireless, and has a built-in touchpad. I turned the sensitivity on the touchpad as high as it can go -- it works for selecting media and browsing the web.
http://reviews.cnet.com/keyboards/logitech-cordless-mediaboard-for/4505-3134_7-32319140.html
CitizenC on October 17, 2008 10:24 AMOh, and it's VERY light-weight. That part is extremely important.
You can pass it across the room with one hand without issue. I'd say it weighs about as much as a half-drunk bottle of beer.
I've been using the same two AA batteries since I bought it, some two months ago. It's used daily.
CitizenC on October 17, 2008 10:33 AMI currently use a TypeMatrix EZ-Reach 2030 keyboard (PS/2 version) which serves me exceptionally well. It supports both QWERTY and Dvorak layouts without the need for software remapping, and it's also small and compact. It uses a matrix layout which I find much more ergonomical than the staggering columns layouts. It also has centre Enter and Backspace keys which means I can use either of my hands to press them. There are also shortcuts for Cut/Copy/Paste (Ctrl+X, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V) which although don't work well under GNOME they are useful to have sometimes (I would love some Emacs shortcuts as well but maybe I'm asking for too much!). It also has large vertical Shift keys, which are much easier to use than the horizontal Shift keys.
NSK on December 7, 2008 11:13 AMAbout my above comment about EZ-Reach 2030, I forgot to add that it also supports special rubber skins that I find very useful for changing layouts or preventing dust. If you are interested to see the TypeMatrix keyboard I described above check their WWW address: http://typematrix.com/
NSK on December 7, 2008 11:16 AMThe comments to this entry are closed.
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