I miss Kathy Sierra.
Kathy was the primary author of the Creating Passionate Users blog, which she started in December 2004. Her writing was of sufficient quality to propel her blog into the Technorati top 100 within a year and a half. That's almost unheard of, particularly for a blog with no commercial aspirations. Kathy wrote because she believed in creating better user experiences, for no other reason than the singular joy of sharing her enthusiasm with us.
And it worked. I found her blog by early 2005. I think my first link to Kathy's blog was Who Needs Talent When You Have Intensity? which is still, to this day, one of my favorite posts. It explains a lot about who Kathy is and why she was so inspiring.
I won a nice bonus from Sun for being one of only four instructors in north America to get the highest possible customer evaluations. But what was remarkable about this is that this happened in spite of my not being a particularly good instructor or Java guru. I proved that a very average instructor could get exceptional results by putting the focus entirely on the students. I paid no attention to whether they thought I knew my stuff.And when I say that I was average, that's really a stretch. I have almost no presentation skills. When I first started at Sun I thought I was going to be fired because I refused to ever use the overhead slides and just relied on the whiteboard, where I drew largely unrecognizable objects and unreadable code. But... I say average when you evaluate me against a metric of traditional stand-up instructor presentation skills. Which I believe are largely bullshit anyway. Assuming you meet some very minimal threshold for teaching, all that matters is that you help the students become smarter. You help them learn by doing whatever it takes. And that usually has nothing to do with what comes out of your mouth, and has everything to do with what happens between their ears. You, as the instructor, have to design and enable situations that cause things to happen. Exercises, labs, debates, discussions, heavy interaction. In other words, things that they do, not things that you do (except that you create the scenarios).
Kathy kicked ass because she wanted us to kick ass. I immediately added her blog to my feed reader. Every new Creating Passionate Users post was the first thing I'd read in the morning, and I was never disappointed.
Until one day in March 2007.
The details are sordid and unpleasant. Kathy's wikipedia entry has a reasonable summary of what happened. It's uglier than most, but I've seen this same pattern play out a few times:
It's been almost exactly a year since Kathy stopped writing. And the world is, in a very small way, a lesser place for it. Kathy was filling her little corner of the world with useful, helpful, and often inspiring information. Just browse the "past favorites" column and imagine what could have filled that space in the last twelve months. Unique voices like Kathy's are what make the internet such a fascinating and wildly poweful Gutenberg press.
Hearing them silenced makes me profoundly sad.
And angry. I'm definitely angry at the jerks who always precipitate these hard decisions.
But I must admit, I'm also a little angry at Kathy, perhaps in a selfish way. Angry that she threw in the towel and locked herself away from the public, away from us, after so many years of positively affecting so many people. I completely understand her rationale for doing so. And it is absolutely her choice to make.
Given the kind of graphic threats Kathy received, I can appreciate the need to be cautious, maybe even to take a hiatus for a while. But when a voice is voluntarily silenced forever, the bad guys have won. Fear wins. I cannot accept this. Intimidation only works if you let yourself be intimidated; terrorism only works if you let yourself be terrorized.
So Kathy, if you're out there, I urge you to come back. We miss you.
I was reminded of all this because Dare Obasanjo recently announced that he's shuttering his blog.
Anil Dash, Mike Arrington, Shelley Powers and myself all find Dare's blog quite useful; he's a unique and insightful voice. I'm sure his nearly 70 thousand subscribers feel the same way. Why shut down something that is clearly enjoyed by so many people? Dare didn't receive death threats, but it's the same basic pattern:
In this case the problems are more subtle, and only alluded to in Dare's sign-off post as a postscript link to The Year the Blog Died.
This year was the first year I considered ending this blog because I'd finally gotten tired of the hassle of people complaining about what I wrote here. The final straw for me surprisingly hasn't been work related although there have been stretching points from disgruntled coworkers who lashed out because I use competing products to people complaining to my management chain and theirs hoping to get me reprimanded or even fired for not toeing the party line. I stand by everything I've written in this blog but I've now gotten enough heat and taken enough inter-personal communication training classes to realize that some opinions are more trouble than they are worth. So every once in a while, I quietly drown a kitten of a half written blog post because I can't be bothered with dealing with the feedback. However that wasn't the breaking point, since I've considered this experience part of "growing up".What I didn't expect to have to deal with was people back home in Nigeria reading my blog. Or even worse, certain posts from my blog being printed out and republished in Nigerian print magazines. That audience which now includes quite a few members of my family is one I hadn't anticipated and one whose feedback on misconstrued posts is one I take more to heart than the other kinds of feedback I'm used to getting about my blog. This has now introduced a new set of filters I have to apply to my blog posts.
Of course, it is Dare's blog, and he is free to do whatever he likes with it, regardless of what those 70,000 readers might want. He doesn't specify exactly what the problem is, although I have a hard time imagining that his many posts about XML, web APIs, and Facebook are causing problems for his family in Nigeria. Still, I hate the idea that Dare is giving up, that he's conceding to unnamed forces who are intimidating him into silence. It'd be one thing if Dare said that he didn't enjoy blogging, or if nobody was listening. But clearly that's not the case. Dare provided a refreshingly honest and open look at what was going on inside parts of Microsoft, along with some penetrating industry analysis. I'll miss that greatly.
I've never met Kathy Sierra or Dare Obasanjo, although I do feel I know them peripherally through long term readership of their blogs. It's not my place to tell them-- or anyone, really-- what to do.
But I'm absolutely certain that when they stop writing, everyone loses.
With this many comments, I doubt mine will even be read by many, but here's my two Euro-cents:
I don't know the situation at hand. All the original content has been deleted, classified and hidden. So if I am wrong about this particular case, just view my comment as unrelated.
People need to stop blaming others because someone has a thin skin. If I photoshop you with, say, a noose around your neck, THAT IS NOT A DEATH THREAT. If I tell someone, "I hope you die", it isn't a death threat either. Just because you perceive it as one doesn't make it one. Being emotionally unable to deal with crude insults does not mean the entire world needs to be policed and "free speech" rules need thrown out of the window.
Part of the internet is being able to a) say what you want, b) enforce every rule you want on your personal forum, blog, etc. and c) accept the fact that there might be people out there who will say things you don't like on their own personal space. Don't like it, don't read it. If they post on your blog, ban them and delete their posts.
If we blamed everyone who posted something negative "enough" to make someone else quit what they do, then soon nothing but fluffy political correctness would be allowed anymore. What a boring world, where everyone has to be nice. And what a sad world where everyone acts like that would be a good thing.
This reminds me of a game forum I moderate: some guy let his 10 year old misbehaving brat to play the game, and the brat harassed others to the point where they told him to "Piss off and suck my d***". 24 hours later, the dad contacted me trying to get that guy banned for "child pornography/solicitation". Here's my heads up: just because you take something the worst way possible does not make it so. Just because you feel threatened when I say "Go die in a fire" does not make me a criminal who seriously threatened your life. This is your problem, not mine.
In this particular case, I find it very hard to believe that a tech blogger could have said something that would make a sane, stable person assume a "death threat" like the above could in any possible way be meant serious. If you post that abortions should be possible until the day of the delivery, ok, I can see how a death threat would scare you and be taken serious. But a Java tech blogger ? I can't imagine a scenario in which something like that could possibly be taken serious. If the woman in question REALLY thought someone would kill her over an article about Java programming, then she is the one with mental problem, not the bored trolls who scared her.
Again, I might be wrong about this particular case. My point still stands for the rest of the internet though. I've too often seen a random troll casted as the evil villain by people who lack the necessary skin to deal with society.
J. Stoever on March 6, 2008 1:20 AMWhat do I get out of [having a blog]?
Done right, you get the power to effect some kind of positive change in the world. Having a popular blog amplifies your effectiveness (over the typical MSFT employee) by about, oh, a thousand times. Whatever your agenda is -- and I know you have one, because *everyone* has one -- a popular blog will get you much further than toiling away quietly in obscurity.
Honestly, do I really have to point out why Scott Guthrie is so lionized?
Jeff Atwood on March 6, 2008 1:38 AMKathy indicated during one of her ETech pesentations that her blog will be coming back soon. She didn't say when specifically, just soon
Jake Ludington on March 6, 2008 2:45 AMHaving a popular blog amplifies your effectiveness (over the typical MSFT employee) by about, oh, a thousand times. Whatever your agenda is -- and I know you have one, because *everyone* has one -- a popular blog will get you much further than toiling away quietly in obscurity.
You have a strange definition of effectiveness. You seem to equate blog fame with getting things done which is a pretty narrow minded and incorrect manner of judging how much impact someone has. Is Steve Jobs ineffective because he doesn't blog? Are the core devs working on the iPod and iPhone OSes ineffectives because they don't blog? How about the engineers behind Toyota Camry or the Lexus?
Honestly, do I really have to point out why Scott Guthrie is so lionized?
Because his teams ship cool stuff like ASP.NET, Atlas and Silverlight?
Dare Obasanjo on March 6, 2008 2:45 AM"All roads to Hell are paved with good intentions"
I guess I should be thankful my attempts to blog have sucked. I'm not provocative enough to invite criticism bold enough to make people uncomfortable with their long-held, but poorly reasoned beliefs.
I'm sorry to hear when anyone is hassled out of good work.
not-bob on March 6, 2008 3:13 AM+1
Thank you!
Sherali Karimov on March 6, 2008 3:29 AMI am officially death-threating you!:)
VG on March 6, 2008 3:31 AMYou've discovered my darkest secret: I am deathly afraid of ASCII smiley faces.
Jeff Atwood on March 6, 2008 3:35 AMIn the end, it's up to the person who is blogging as to whether they continue or not. If they don't want to continue, then it seems ridiculous for them to waste the time. No matter what everyone else gets out of it - the blogger has to get something out of it too or it all becomes a "gimme fest" of readers wanting posts from a person who has lost the will to write them. Because - let's face it - writing even a small blog post is time consuming. Writing technically detailed posts such as Jeff, Kathy, and Dare (I will assume since I haven't checked your blog out yet) write, takes quite large chunks of time.
In Kathy's case, I read through the final posts and decided there had to be other things going on in the background of which I was unaware. Of course that is a supposition on my part. Emails, phone calls, something. People may be online, but they also have an entire life offline, most of which we know nothing about.
Why would I think there is more? Because the things she presented as being the catalyst for shutting down the blog, simply did not seem to be that horrific to me. Then again I've never been known for my sensitivity, so it's quite possible I'm completely wrong and those things as presented were enough to scare her into hiding. And that is a shame.
Keep up the good work. Don't stop blogging. I read your blog everyday.
David on March 6, 2008 3:44 AMI read your blog every day, I hugely disagree with loads that you write and think you are overly kind to Microsoft
But....
I'm not going to intimidate, threaten or otherwise cajole you to stop because
sometimes you change my mind about stuff
And thats the point of reading a blog
Robin on March 6, 2008 3:54 AMIt's something one works with every day of his life. Many things are really not worth the trouble. A commitment to blogging, for example.
Perhaps the best blog is Raymond Chen's. Sufficiently technical. Clear boundaries on personal commentary. A perfect CYA attitude with numerous disclaimers, riders, and of late, "pre-emptive snarky comments" and "nit-pickers' corner". It's irritating, but it is required.
After all, my wife quit me because "You are too open a book and you expect the same from me!". Blogs are nowhere near that level of intimacy.
Anonymous Coward on March 6, 2008 3:54 AMFor the first time after reading your so many posts, I am feeling bad. Very bad.
;(
To be honest, I always found the whole Kathy Sierra thing ridiculous. Ok, so someone said X. It's annoying, to be sure. But to go from that to "mommy, I'm afraid to leave the house" points to mental instability - and not in those uttering "threats". I can't even express how ridiculous the whole thing sounds.
What's next? Taking chain letters seriously? Jeff, send this message to ten others or your computer will fail!
Marcel Popescu on March 6, 2008 4:03 AMAre the core devs working on the iPod and iPhone OSes ineffectives because they don't blog? How about the engineers behind Toyota Camry or the Lexus?
You're playing the zero-sum game again (which is also why I assumed you had to choose between MSFT employment and blogging-- you keep coming back to this, over and over). I argue they would be MORE effective if they were blogging, writing and sharing what they were doing and gathering feedback on it. This dramatically amplifies their effectiveness.
Because his teams ship cool stuff like ASP.NET, Atlas and Silverlight?
That *AND* because he's out there in public kicking ass and leading the way for millions of readers on his blog. Which makes everything else he does about a thousand times more visible and thus effective.
http://blogs.msdn.com/brada/archive/2006/01/28/BeMoreVisibleSham.aspx
--
The key to most PM jobs is leading and influencing others. So, rather than thinking about how to be more visible with what you are doing, ask yourself: "what is the best way to lead and influence others?" Think about people in your workgroup, people across the company, people up the management chain, and people across the industry. What tools can you use? What communication channels are most appropriate to drive your agenda?
--
And what's your job title? oh right, it's PROGRAM MANAGER.
It'd be one thing if I was exhorting some poor soul to become a blogger just because I can. You already are one, and a damn good one, too. And you're giving it up for no apparent reason whatsoever.
This makes you less effective. Which seems insane to me, but different strokes, I guess.
Jeff Atwood on March 6, 2008 4:09 AMI never really understood how that whole Kathy Sierra thing got started. I mean, she must've said something to piss these people off, but I have no idea what that might've been -- any ideas?
Rofa on March 6, 2008 4:21 AMMarcel and others,
I watched the whole Kathy thing unfold and had the same thoughts you did. Think about it for a second: Kathy's reasonable and smart; she doesn't take this stuff out of hand. I'm not defending her decisions, but I do remember reading that the folks posting the threats had _very_ personal information about her including her home address and possibly her phone number. The images that were created were pretty intense and graphic and scared her. The threats were, at the very least, credible to Kathy, and that's what counted.
I don't know what it is like, really, to be genuinely afraid that someone might actually, really, try to hurt me. I've dismissed empty threats before; who hasn't? The idea that a real stalker is out there is not a good one. I don't envy that position. Maybe it isn't worthwhile for a blog.
Until I'm in such a position, I won't judge Kathy's decisions. I miss her outstanding posts and her ideas. I hope she finds a way to come back and share more with us. Heck, if she wants to make awesome essays and just e-mail them to me personally, I'd be okay with that.
Garret on March 6, 2008 4:33 AMGarret, just make sure you fwd me every single mail she sends you :)
I miss her too :(
Nicols Sanguinetti on March 6, 2008 4:36 AMI've been through essentially the same thing. I don't have any particular pity for people who start blogs or sites or services and grow frustrated with dealing with people and finally shut them down. It's just part of the world these days. I also don't think it has anything to do with gender (though some would like to make that an issue, apparently).
I've offered a free service and site for a decade. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars building, maintaining, moving, rebuilding and operating it. Not to mention countless hours, days, weeks, months... *years*.
For the most part, it's worth it. I don't make a time. I don't charge a dime. I only allow very specific advertising (which doesn't pay a twentieth of the costs) and that's not for me to make money, but to allow people with something topical to get some exposure for their services or sites or businesses.
Out of about 50,000 or so registered members, only a very small number are actual problems. An almost immeasurably small percentage. However, they can have quite a significant impact when they post things on the web damaging your reputation for no other reason than being upset that you banned them for harassing other users or defrauding other people. Or when users harass you by email or instant messaging or even the telephone. Or obtain your private information and start hassling you through various offline messages. Why? Because they couldn't behave on the site and you had to ban them.
I've had many death threats of various flavors and creativity levels. I've had people attempts to viciously hurt my reputation. All as a way of repaying me for an entire decade of my life at the expense of a lot of other aspects of my life and interests that I could have pursued.
Not to mention just the day to day task of making sure people generally get along without upsetting the entire apple cart and making everyone leave because of a few bad guys.
There are a number of times I have considered just throwing in the towel. However, unlike some of the other people who have done so, I realized that my services and project were a piece of myself. They were the result of a huge chunk of my life and energy and dedication. As much as I hated dealing with things now and then, it's hard to justify throwing away a decade of your life over a few asses.
As for Sierra. Yeah, the guy who did what he was doing was a harassing ahole. It's unfortunate that Sierra and others had to make it less about a guy who was being a total douchebag on the internet and making life difficult for people and threatening them... and more about how he was doing all of that... because he's a woman-hating bastard just (as many commentaries and posts and blogs about the incident tried to relate it) "like so many other terrible, vile, evil, bad bad males".
I feel that whole aspect of it really detracted from the underlying point and made it a muddled, uncomfortable discussion that put a whole lot of reasonable people into a defensive position.
That said, the day some dill on the internet scares me out of doing something I want to do - even if they have my personal information and carry it into real life - is the day I might as well just tar and feather myself. Those are just my convictions.
Of course, being scared out of doing something you love versus simply ceasing something you love because the frustration and effort and hassle involved started to seriously outweigh the positives you gain from it is entirely different.
Seumas on March 6, 2008 4:37 AMJeff, if you ever stop blogging I guarantee I'll find some way to make you pay.
Remember, Google knows where you live!
;)
Someone on March 6, 2008 4:38 AM@Marcel
It's not that simple. You start a blog because you want to help. You don't expect anything from anyone, you're just spending your free time trying to help. Then some idiots start threatening you, call you names and make your blog a misery. So you start to wonder why you're bothering to spend the time writing. Eventually it becomes too much and you just throw in the towel. What's the point trying to help when all you get is abuse?
NakedProgrammer on March 6, 2008 4:48 AM@JeffK
"100 million human beings were murdered in the 20th century."
Yes, but that's not a significantly higher percentage of the total population than were "murdered" (I'm assuming here you mean died by violence) in any other century.
"How many do you think will get it in the 21st?"
Probably the same percentage.
Death threats are coersion that violates many basic rights. As such it does not fall under free speech, in many cases impares it. Those that take part in the behavior transgress against the social contract and are at war with our society. The only resolution is separate those individuals from society. It is a surrender of free speech if you allow yourself to be influenced by these sick individuals.
brian on March 6, 2008 4:49 AM"And you're giving it up for no apparent reason whatsoever."
Well, no reason he wants to talk about. Not sure that's the same thing.
I think it's up to the blogger to take these decisions, no matter how much I'd want to read their posts.
I did also read Kathys blog and miss it and I also respect her decision.
Bloggers are often expressing "opinions" in a way that often stir up heat. The thing is that there is a lot of "dangerous" people out there that do not understand that the open discussion is a benefit for all.
It's like Paul Grahamn puts it http://paulgraham.com/say.html
We can all want a perfect world but we have to live in our current one.
Edward on March 6, 2008 4:53 AM
nice post - how about pointing us to blogs that are still going and worth reading? I'm sure most people here share the same interest categories - It'd be nice to see what other people are reading online...
Cheers,
@NakedProgrammer
On the other hand, every other person exposed in some way to the public has to deal with the same issues, so why should content producers online have any different experience? Granted, celebrities, authors, musicians, actors, politicians and public officials do benefit from what they do and usually therein derive their notoriety, but they still have to deal with remarks, rumors, crude behavior, personal attacks and - often - even various threats.
Everytime one of us contributes to something on the internet - whether it be a service or a website or a blog or a comment somewhere, that is public exposure and you potentially have to take some things that come with that exposure. Obviously some people are a bigger target for that than others.
Of course, compensation is also part of the difference. If you give everything of yourself to a project or a service for no personal return other than interacting with people and you are berated, attacked, slandered or even threatened for it, it's probably a little harder to take at times than if you're some rich famous individual who can take solace in having those things in exchange. Not to mention, if you say something critical or harmful about a true celebrity or person of some notoriety, people automatically take it with a grain of salt. If people don't really know anything about you other than what they see some jerk or nutjob posting about you online, you aren't usually afforded the same benefit of the doubt.
Here is what I don't understand. Why just up and disappear? How does posting on the internet make you more vulnerable once you've already been doing it? And how does ceasing posting make you safer? Presuming one would need to show an acquisition of some of your personal information (address, phone, etc) to put eight behind their threats, they certainly aren't getting that from your blog posts. So ceasing them just sounds like a whole lot of "fine, I'm taking my ball and going home"... Unless it is - as in this last guy's case - just a matter of accumulated frustration overwhelming any personal reward you get out of it.
Personally, I can't count how many times I've gone through bouts of wanting to toss it all in a can. I've reached the point countless times where just the idea of visiting my own damn site tied my stomach into knots and I would (and do) avoid it for lengthy stretches. So I definitely understand that aspect of it. But that comes with a lot of other aspects of life. If you're in a club or a group or organization of some kind. Hell, even your job.
Seumas on March 6, 2008 5:05 AMOh,why are these people going down without a fight (one already down),i just started blogging and i would *never* consider stopping because some one is making it unbearable.For Dare i would say he should tell those idiotic readers to check his disclaimer .Btw if you read a blog and you do not like the content what do you do .....rss....delete subscription .is that so hard to do ? Instead of doing that you hate-post like the plague. To all those friggin' annoying readers out there i have two for you : SUCK IT!
PS: Jeff,i will start death threating you if you stop posting :) be afraid ,be very afraid
@Seumas
I agree with you. I'm not one to throw in the towel either, but not everyone is wired that way. For some the threats, crude remarks and other hostility is not worth it, especially when you're doing it out of the goodness of your own heart.
I collect donations for a Cancer charity and go door to door. I've suffered verbal abuse and been threatened. I seriously considered not doing it this year, but I've got the envelopes ready and I'll be off this weekend.
I know that by the end of next week I'll have come across some idiot who'll give me a mouthful, tell me that he can't afford money for himself and probably get abusive. It'll stress me out and I'll promise not to do the collection again next year, but I know I will.
When you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart it's not about safety. It's about how you feel after the event. That's why I won't stop - I feel like I've done some good. The idiots who give me abuse limit that feeling, and I can see how easy it would be for one of them to tip the balance. To change it from a mostly positive experience to a negative one. And then I'll stop. I'll stop, not because I think I'll be safer, but because I no longer get any pleasure from it.
I miss Kathy's blog. I think it was one of the best. For a long time after she left I kept visiting it, hoping she'd start posting again (that makes me sound so sad). I respect her decision to go away though.
NakedProgrammer on March 6, 2008 5:29 AMI can't see this blog lasting much longer. Not with you being so popular you take 2 places on the Technorati Popular 100.
85th and 93rd? Maybe your blog is good many folks read it twice?
I must admit I would be devastated if you ever shut down your blog... and of course after this post I may have to call you a hypocrite as well if you do.
Billkamm on March 6, 2008 5:45 AMSince I know everyone involved, I'm not going to comment on the issue with Kathy Sierra, other than to encourage her do what's right for herself as regards her weblog.
Jeff, you wrote:
blockquote
It'd be one thing if I was exhorting some poor soul to become a blogger just because I can. You already are one, and a damn good one, too. And you're giving it up for no apparent reason whatsoever.
This makes you less effective. Which seems insane to me, but different strokes, I guess.
/blockquote
I think Tom had the best response in that Dare's reasons are good enough for Dare, and don't necessarily have to be repeated to us. The weblog isn't working for Dare, we'll miss him. Maybe someday, he'll be back. Maybe he won't.
You know, it's better to quit when the time is right, rather than drag along, putting out mediocre stuff until you reach a point when you finally do put the weblog out of misery, no one cares.
In the meantime, Jeff, you're energized by your weblog and it's a healthy place for you, and it shows in your writing.
Shelley on March 6, 2008 5:53 AMThere have always been idiots and bullies in the world, and there always will be. I'm not justifying what those morons did to Kathy, but I think it's important to remember that this sort of thing is not new, and isn't likely to ever disappear - it just changes form. Once upon a time it was raiding your neighbour's village - killing his cattle, burning his crops, that sort of thing. These days things have taken a more electronic twist, but it's all the same thing - morons vs the world.
The morons only win if we let them. The choice is ours, not theirs.
RWW on March 6, 2008 6:01 AMOn the one had the internet opens the doors for a wider audience for our discussions. Many people in the world like to discuss and be stimulated by discussions on topics that interest us. The web provides an excellent vessel for such discussions. We can literally open discussion with people we will never meet face-to-face.
Unlike a face to face discussion, we cannot walk away from our blog, and we cannot decide who we talk to and who we don’t. Maybe worse, we cannot decide to only post our ideas for like minded people.
The reality of the world is that there are many people out there who lack the respect for other or the maturity to deal with contradiction in a constructive manner. Because of this we have seen the rise of the “flame-war”. We have seen various forms of anger and frustration and even hate vented on complete strangers because their opinions differ. This is unfortunate, but there is sadly nothing to be done about it.
The only alternative suggestion I could make would be to relocate blogs to a “closed” service requiring accounts for access. In this way site policies can have people banned for inappropriate behavior. This at least would protect the bloggers, though it would lock up ideas.
I think it’s a shame that some people decide to silence the sharing of ideas. Not wanting to deal with this sort of thing is one reason I have never posted my own essays on the software industry.
My thanks go to those who have the courage to share their ideas on their blogs. You are making and often unthankful world richer for it.
Go Kathy!
Edgardo on March 6, 2008 6:12 AM"I never really understood how that whole Kathy Sierra thing got started. I mean, she must've said something to piss these people off, but I have no idea what that might've been -- any ideas?
Rofa on March 6, 2008 04:21 AM "
==================================================================
My thoughts, it's better to be pissed off than pissed on!
Life is to short to have to worry if you are going to make someone angry with the words you write. Blogs are opinions! I read this blog every morning, and I don't agree with some of the items that is written about, however, it is an opinion. If people are so narrow minded that reading something offends them, especially someone elses opinion, then maybe, just maybe, they need to get a life and get from behind the keyboard.
Seems to me that the only way to blog without harrassment or hassle is to cloak oneself in complete anonymity and prohibit feedback from non-trusted sources... More broadly, humans evolved to open up to a few dozen people at most; we're simply not built to cope with finding ourselves under the immediate gaze of a billion - one per cent of whom are essentially psychopathic anyway, and a few tens of millions more are happy to behave that way under cloak of anonymity.
gwenhwyfaer on March 6, 2008 6:31 AMThank you, nice post, very informative. Regards.
Jeffrey on March 6, 2008 6:33 AMStill, I hate the idea that Dare is giving up, that he's conceding to unnamed forces who are intimidating him into silence.
It could also be that I weighed all the positives of continuing my blog in its current form and all the negatives then decided that the negative column outweighed the positive.
By the way, I asked on Twitter what the benefits continuing my blog would be to ME and I didn't get an answer from you. The fact that a bunch of people I've either never met or barely know will miss my blog isn't a significant reason to do anything in my book.
Dare Obasanjo on March 6, 2008 6:41 AMI miss Kathy's blog too :(( I learned so much from her. I still have the "featuritus curve" on my office wall.
Steve Campbell on March 6, 2008 6:43 AMI really miss Kathy.
Paulo Eduardo Neves on March 6, 2008 6:49 AMHopefully this means that Jeff will keep writing here for quite a while - as I visit every day.
I noticed a lot of what Dare speaks of at another blog I read quite a bit - the Old New Thing by Raymond Chen. Whereas his blog used to be a great resource to get the "how and why" of Windows and contained a lot of background information pertaining to Microsoft, now he spends a lot of time pre-emptively addressing the "snark" and utter BS people leave in his comments. It makes for a lot less enjoyable reading when his obvious jadedness is right in your face.
I suppose running a popular blog exposes you to all kinds of people, and on the Internet idiots are a dime a dozen.
Brad Brening on March 6, 2008 6:52 AM"It's not my place to tell them-- or anyone, really-- what to do."
This is actually kind of a lie. It's clear that you don't feel they should have the choice to abandon their readership. Why don't you just say that? Instead you've sprinkled this lie throughout your post, and it clearly betrays your actual feelings.
anonymous on March 6, 2008 6:53 AMOh, please, don't compare this to the Kathy Sierra hysterics. I loved her blog, and I fully understand her initial shocked reaction to the abuse she was subjected to, but they were no more than childish, misogynistic, vile and extremely tasteless but alas hardly uncommon 'jokes'.
I'm glad people still find that kind of crap shocking, but one vile photoshop job and a few demeaning comments on other blogs do not constitute serious 'death threats', and is nothing compared to the kind of pressure Dare had to deal with, both personally and professionally.
Don't get me wrong, I don't discount the way Kathy Sierra personally experienced these events, but she clearly recovered fast enough to initiate a witch hunt against everyone she for some reason held responsible for that episode, settling old scores and ruining other peoples reputation in the process.
Rick on March 6, 2008 6:58 AMFor those asking "what did Kathy do to piss them off?", the answer is "she became more popular than them". I think this post explains it pretty well:
http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/08/physics_of_pass.html
I miss her writing too. Her books are great to read too. She was definitely very different in a great amazing way that made me excited to read whatever new post she made. That light is now gone out.
It is sad. I agree. I hope she comes back eventually and hasn't shut the door forever.
Christopher Humphries on March 6, 2008 7:08 AMI see a lot of this on YouTube where popular vloggers receive many death threats and are driven off the site. It has become a serious problem there. However, I am surprised that the same sort of thing happens to bloggers and IT professionals.
Robert S. Robbins on March 6, 2008 7:10 AMI expect there are idiots who treat you the same as the other bloggers you mentioned experienced. The world would be a less enjoyable place if you were to stop writing. Thank you for your work.
Paul Williams on March 6, 2008 7:12 AMJeff I just tried your site in internet explorer 8 beta just to let you know the page formatting doesn't look correct anymore it justifies the main page much further to the right than IE7.
Also I don't think this is particularly your website problem but these text boxes are very slow to refresh when using IE8. You have to stop typing for it to show what you have written (takes a few ms). A mouse click in the text box doesn't put the cursor in the correct position either it puts the pointer further to the left (probably beta bug).
pete on March 6, 2008 7:14 AMA long time ago I tried to make sure that my "professional identity" and my "internet identity" were thoroughly bifurcated and obfuscated (to the point where I trash my "internet identity" on an annual basis and make a new one). We're a species that evolved in tiny villages and kin groups, and we don't have the slightest clue how to behave appropriately when we become a giant anonymous, interconnected mob. Too much of a risk, not enough of a reward. Even just arguing with people on a discussion page of Wikipedia can get unpleasant e-mails to your boss, administrator, adviser, etc. if you aren't careful. I had one crazy calling up my academic advisor (though he didn't realize it, as he didn't know my actual identity) to try and weigh in on a content dispute. Blah. No thanks.
Shmork on March 6, 2008 7:17 AMI think part of the problem, which has been touched on above, is that blogging is, at its core, a solo activity.
Which means firstly, that when Kathy Sierra gets worn out with the inevitable blogging weariness, her blog will shut down, unlike a blog maintained by several people, where one can drop out till they recover; and secondly, that work weariness will break her much easier, because she hasn't got anyone supporting her that can really understand the burden involved with creating something at that kind of rate.
Couple that with the inevitable *extra* burden faced by anyone in this medium who is not, let's say, an overweight white Western male with the stereotypical geeky social problems, and it's incredible that any such blog keeps going at all. It's fairly impressive that they start.
I was listening to a Penny Arcade podcast where one of the creators asked the other what it must be like to make webcomics alone, without someone else to bounce ideas off. The answer came back: "A Living Hell".
Tom on March 6, 2008 7:19 AMJeff, it's hard to articulate, but Dare has reasons for his choices just as you have reasons for choices in life that may not best inspire or edify others. All that being said, don't stop blogging before or during your prime (I love your insight), but please don't wait until you suck. Remember, suck less every year.
harpooner on March 6, 2008 7:21 AMAs much as it might be 'silly' -- this is why I keep my internet anonymity, at least to the extent that I never post or use my name or any personally identifiable information about me on my blog.
What I also find funny is that so many of these blogs close because of the amount of beatdown ... while my blog certainly isn't all that popular, for a while I just disabled comments. If people wanted to talk about it, then they did it elsewhere. Obviously that approach won't work for everyone, but sometimes you can avoid the frothing at the mouth folks by simple ignoring them.
N on March 6, 2008 7:22 AMAgreed +n. I am a product manager and my philosophy towards product management is guided by Kathy's blog more than any other single source. I very deeply and sincerely wish she was still blogging :)
Amar Rama on March 6, 2008 7:23 AMI miss Kathy too.
And this is a great example of how to avoid the echo chamber.
Michael on March 6, 2008 7:31 AMMan, I used to read Kathy Sierra's blog religiously. I loved her stuff. It's incredibly sad that there are asshats who have to ruin it for everyone else...
LKM on March 6, 2008 7:48 AMI think this attack on Kathy represents the insanity of the egoic mind (see 'The Power of Now'), which is getting worse and worse. 100 million human beings were murdered in the 20th century. How many do you think will get it in the 21st? Kathy was providing something smart and heart felt and controversial. But there are many sick people in the world, who feel threatened by any woman who demonstrates independence and intelligence. Did you know that the Catholic church murdered about 3 million women during the course of 300 years? They were burned as witches, which meant they showed some sign of independence or creativity. So why should we be surprised if a half dozen males choose to threaten and persecute Kathy for her independence?
JeffK on March 6, 2008 7:55 AMIt's happening all over the place. There's a website, Sepia Mutiny, which is dedicated to issues for second-generation south Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Bangladesis, etc). All of the bloggers on the site have been threatened and haraassed in one way or another, but the trolls have focused most strongly on one of the women bloggers, going so far as to create a WordPress blog just mocking her, posting personal attacks about her life and weight, and revealing personal information about where she lived and worked until Google finally yanked it. But not before the blogger had shut down her own blogs, stopped posting on Sepia Mutiny, and cancelled all of the meetups that'd been scheduled.
Eventually she was coaxed back out, but still, over and over again these attacks come up.
It's unfortunate, and makes me extremely sad that these kinds of things happen and keep happening.
Maurice Reeves on March 6, 2008 7:55 AMTalk about coincidence! I just found out about Dare's website last week and now I see that he's no longer blogging. Well, at least Dare's posts and Kathy's posts will remain forever available for future generations to read and being inspired...I sure was!
Brian Di Croce on March 6, 2008 7:56 AMJeff, I know you feel comments are essential to keeping a blog running, but there's a threshold at which they take up more time than necessary. I do not think comments necessary on every blog. I debate the usefulness of them on here. It is rare that I glean any additional insight from them. Usually it is the same four points repeated over and over, but with lots of grammatical and spelling errors. Oh and lots of those cool Internet memes that somehow are acceptable in place of actual things to say.
There simply isn't enough of a time investment required to say whatever users want to say. The more of a hassle it is, the more determined users have to be, and that happens to weed out a lot of the noise.
Matt Green on March 6, 2008 7:59 AMI enjoyed Kathy's writing and her no longer writing is a loss to the development community. It is very sad that this kind of thing happens, but it's an unfortunate reality.
I'm a tall athletic white guy who doesn't feel threatened easily, but I can still empathize with Kathy and understand her. My personally most fear-inducing moment of my life was when I served on a jury and we found a defendant guilty of second degree murder. Standing there while the verdict was being read and stating that I, juror number 4, agree with this verdict, while the scumbag we convicted (who was an admitted drug dealer and thug) was staring at us, was a bone-chilling moment that seemed to last a lifetime. Even prior to that, during the week the trial lasted, the entire time this guy was starting at us, unsmiling and cold. He knew more about us from the jury selection process than we ever learned about him, including our names and addresses. I must admit there were times during the trial when I played with the thought of finding the guy not guilty so I wouldn't have to deal with him coming after me. I know that sounds irrational now, but unless you're been in that situation, you can't imagine how real and scary it feels.
Dude on March 6, 2008 8:09 AMWhat price the First Amendment?
Frank Wilhoit on March 6, 2008 8:23 AMIt's said to see good blogs die. However, we can't be mad at the authors. They need to do what is right for them. If they felt obligated, then they might keep their blog going for a little while longer but it just wouldn't be the same.
To each his own...
And forget about all this "letting the bad guys win" BS! You want these individuals to stand up to the "bad guys" and be threatened and harassed so you can read their RSS feeds? Writing a blog is not a battle of good and evil. I think you might think differently if it was happening to you.
Jeff on March 6, 2008 8:27 AMHey Now Jeff,
Very serious post. Wish you the best, I sure enjoy the content you post.
Coding Horror fan,
Catto
+1 for Kathy coming back. Your blog was awesome!
Yan on March 6, 2008 8:28 AMIn almost any circumstance, posting your real name online is stupid or completely unnecessary.
anonymous on March 6, 2008 8:39 AMHey, I have the solution!
...reverse death threats. Instead of threatening bloggers who currently write, you threat bloggers who have shut down their blog if they don't start up again!
In all seriousness, I find it lame that people are scared of death threats on the internet. It's not hard to find someone's personal information if you have their real name and they have a BLOG. Just because I can phone you in *real life* doesn't mean you should believe my death threats any more than the guy who emails you "I h8 u, i wll hng u!!!1".
leetdood on March 6, 2008 8:39 AMNice post as always. Jeff, I'm guessing you and many of your readers have read "The Fountainhead", by Rand. If not, you may want to have a look.
John Pirie on March 6, 2008 8:59 AMI've never been in a position to share my opinions with more than a dozen people at a time, but I hope I never have to say that my opinion is more trouble than it's worth. This world would be a much poorer place if there weren't people over the years who had shouted their opinions from the rooftops, regardless of the cost.
Michael Newton on March 6, 2008 9:05 AMOMG. I remember her too. Come back Kathy!
If you're a drudge fan: drudgetracker.com
Jimmy L on March 6, 2008 9:05 AMkd - Good to see XKCD getting a mention here. That simple comic often holds true in so many ways :)
RWW on March 6, 2008 9:26 AMYou always do this Jeff. Everyone needs to blog because you do.
Rather than being a butt, let him have his decision.
Michael Reiland on March 6, 2008 9:36 AMdecided that the negative column outweighed the positive.
Sure, that's your call to make.
By the way, I asked on Twitter what the benefits continuing my blog would be to ME and I didn't get an answer from you.
Actually, you already had my answer. I think it's easier to cause change from outside Microsoft with an influential blog, than it is to try to change it from the inside using the existing power structure. So when you stop blogging, you stop having the power to influence and change what happens at MSFT in any real or significant way.
Your comments implied that it was an either/or choice-- either stop working at MSFT *or* stop blogging. Is that true? I have an opinion on this as well (surprise!) but I don't want to belabor it if that's not the case. Ideally I think you should continue to do both things.
As I said in my Twitter comment, "you know that really effective high profile thing I do that a lot of people know me for? I'm gonna stop doing that."
Very little that MSFT employees do on the inside results in anything tangible for me or 99.999% of the rest of the world. Whereas writing a blog is you shipping a product directly to us, with no intermediaries. Why you'd give that up is a mystery to me.
Anyway, for further followup I might email you directly, per the rules of Communication Escalation.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001064.html
Jeff Atwood on March 6, 2008 9:44 AM"People may be online, but they also have an entire life offline, most of which we know nothing about."
Precisely!
I've long thought that people should have a personal (likely with extremely good security measures) blog/diary before venturing into establishing a general public facing one because there are things that are simply hard to explain without knowing a person's entire life story. And, by having a personal diary, you get to have some benefits of blogging without the hard and sometimes impossible task of telling the general public what your personal motivations, agendas, and rationales are.
Zian on March 6, 2008 9:44 AM"L'enfer, c'est les autres"
Frank on March 6, 2008 9:45 AMI think the threats and insults come from the "insulated" quality of communicating via PC. When the worst thing that can happen to you sitting behind your computer is getting fragged while playing Half Life 2, we tend to get a little cocky thinking that what we say won't have much of an effect, either. But:
WORDS MEAN THINGS.
IDEAS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
Good post... I sometimes check Kathy Sierra's blog to see if she's writing again.....
I hope this post is not a preparation for departure... 8-)
regards
Jorge Diaz Tambley on March 6, 2008 9:47 AMFor those wanting a back story of the Sierra Saga, I did a series of posts and interviewed some of the players.
Jim Turner on March 6, 2008 9:48 AMBlogging is journalism, even if journalism is not your intention.
Therefore, bloggers get the same treatment that journalists always have.
Ask any old school journo (if you can find one) about the stuff that is sent to them. They all get the threats, everyone of them - not just the police and political reporters, but the sports guys, the financial analysts, the arts and entertainment writers, everyone. The difference is that at the newspaper you work with a lot other people who get the same crap in the mail every day. When you blog you sit in your cubicle/office all by yourself.
larah on March 6, 2008 9:55 AMI agree completely.
I will miss Dare especially, he was really a different voice that I found useful.
Colin on March 6, 2008 10:13 AMThe way the Kathy Sierra story is usually told is tends to be highly sensationalistic and inaccurate, and does a grave disservice to many innocent people who were splattered with mud in the process:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/apr/19/blogging.comment
"Accusations of sex and violence were bound to grab the headlines"
I'm lucky to have met Kathy (I attended her Storyboarding for Non-Fiction tutorial this week at ETech and talked with her a few minutes after) and to have had Dare write a foreword for one of our books. They're both fantastic bloggers and I hope they'll both find a way to come back to blogging that is rewarding and comfortable.
Jim Minatel on March 6, 2008 10:15 AMI miss Kathy's blog.
When faced with a threatening situation, whether perceived or real, you're options are to back down or to stand up. Backing down, especially in the case of threat of physical harm, is rational; it's a natural response to protect yourself and your family. Standing up is the brave and noble response.
If one chooses to stand up, it's admirable. If one chooses to back down, it's rational. You always hope for the admirable, but you can't really fault someone for being rational.
Jeremy Nunn on March 6, 2008 10:20 AMSaying "everybody loses", don't you think that authors of those blogs win as they feel much more comfortable (themselves) after they stopped writting? and obviously they have a right to stop doing it. I think we just must be thankfull for all their posts and be looking for another bright person who is ready to fill this, so dangerous, position
DK on March 6, 2008 10:54 AMYour comments implied that it was an either/or choice-- either stop working at MSFT *or* stop blogging. Is that true?
I'm not sure what I said to imply that but it isn't the case. My job was not on the line or anything as melodramatic as that.
Very little that MSFT employees do on the inside results in anything tangible for me or 99.999% of the rest of the world. Whereas writing a blog is you shipping a product directly to us, with no intermediaries. Why you'd give that up is a mystery to me.
I understand what YOU get out of me having a blog. What do I get out of it? The fact that MSFT customers will have one less b0rg blog from a choice of over 5500 Microsoft employee blogs doesn't sound like a compelling argument for me to continue investing myself in my personal blog.
Dare Obasanjo on March 6, 2008 11:03 AM"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." - Winston Churchill
http://www.school-for-champions.com/speeches/churchill_never_give_in.htm
She gave in. She lost. Her readers lost. Her antagonists won.
RBL on March 6, 2008 11:13 AM"Intimidation only works if you let yourself be intimidated; terrorism only works if you let yourself be terrorized."
That's a sound bite from the Bush administration that I think is wrong. They also work if you (or people you care about) are injured or killed.
Stefan on March 6, 2008 11:19 AMNice post, and a sad commentary on how a few can ruin things for many. Blogging's great advantage of connecting people very effectively becomes the challenge of protecting our basic right not to be abused.
Joe Hunkins on March 6, 2008 11:30 AMI blog - although I'm not nearly in the same league as this blog or dare's (by two orders of magnitude).
But I blog for *me*. I find writing is good way to get my thoughts in order and I think it might help others which makes me feel good.
I've gotten a few nasty comments whereupon I usually try to see if anything arrogant slipped through. Sometimes I have been on the arrogant side of opinionated and I try to be a little more balanced.
But sometimes they're just a bunch of whackjobs or they're jealous.
I also try to follow the "Mother" principle - never write anything in public that you feel your mother would be ashamed of if she read it on the front page of the newspaper.
So Dare, what's in it for YOU? Only you know that. If you do it - do it for YOU man.
Christ if everyone gave up after a lot of negative comments -we'd still be living in caves. Did Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Ted Turner ever listen to the complainers? Hell no!
You've got ONE life to live YOURS - on your deathbed will you be proud that you said your piece and it will live for eternity on the internet or will you regret that you gave up?
That's your call. Blog anonymously if it helps. But do it for YOU.
-Frank
p.s. death threats are a whole 'nother ballgame. But Salman Rushdie didn't stop! Although he does have a bodyguard :-)
Why is it that the acts of a few deranged/dishonest/misguided/uncivil/plain nuts peple, lead to putting more locks, discourage free speech, and give a hard time for the rest of us who want ideas (constructive ones, bright ones, clever ones, not obnoxious ones) and people to flow freely?
Think how petty office theft leads to locks, people coming in late lead to clock punching, terrorist attacks lead to thousands of people-hours lost to security checks, nad of course the sense of a violation of personal space inflicted by threats, which serious or not hinder our core freedom, to feel at ease in our familiar environment.
The many, losing because of a few.
"I understand what YOU get out of me having a blog. What do I get out of it? The fact that MSFT customers will have one less b0rg blog from a choice of over 5500 Microsoft employee blogs doesn't sound like a compelling argument for me to continue investing myself in my personal blog. "
what do you get out of it? the very thing why you started a blog at the first place.
bloggers are like indy bands. at first they have a small following and as their popularity grow, they get more fame and exposure. all that comes with more ciriticism too. as long as you keep your ego in check you should do fine. many bloggers get this "internet supertar" syndrome that eventually make them lose sight who/what they really are. internet is a good place to foster false accomplishments.
once you stop blogging, fewer people who remember you and fewer will even know what you did. they'll just move on that's just the reality of thing these day in a world of short attention span.
jin on March 6, 2008 11:53 AMAnd don't always write friendly posts that will please everyone. My favourite ones are the ones where there's plently of disagrement. I remember one guy once saying "Jeff, you are no longer relevant to computer programming, I have deleated you from my rss feed, goodbye."
I'm impressed you keep going - seriously don't stop man.
Being a draft Kathy movement. I miss her writing too. I never met her, but I learned a lot by reading her blog.
Thanks for the post.
Scott on March 6, 2008 12:56 PMYeah Jeff, we miss her too. Doing the right thing is not always easy and its sad to see that alot of them give up.
Nash on March 7, 2008 1:19 AM@Andrew
"1. Author starts blog.
2. Blog becomes wildly popular.
3. Author takes the fame to heart and starts to pontificate at every opportunity, now that they are suddenly Important.
4. Author can't be bothered to think up posts any more, decent or otherwise.
5. Auther gets better job and/or something better to do with his time.
5. Everyone loses."
Then there's the 3 steps of being the guys who drive bloggers off the 'net.
1. Author gets jealous of popular blogs' success.
2. Author posts snarky comments.
3. Author notices too late that he's made a stupid error when counting to 6 and spelling Author, and is mocked for it.
"It's been almost exactly a year since Kathy stopped writing. And the world is, in a very small way, a lesser place for it."
I disagree. The world went on moving on. When things change like this, the initial surprise or dissapointment is felt. It soon subsides and the we all move along. The world being a lesser place is quite an overstatement.
As for bloggers being harrased. Shut off comments. You're leaving the door open to anyone and some are bound to come in an shit on your carpet.
Diego on March 7, 2008 2:29 AMAtwood and Obasanjo - who is better? There's only one way to find out: FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!
Hilarious.
In my experience, the rise and fall of a popular blog goes something like this:
1. Author starts blog.
2. Blog becomes wildly popular.
3. Author takes the fame to heart and starts to pontificate at every opportunity, now that they are suddenly Important.
4. Author can't be bothered to think up posts any more, decent or otherwise.
5. Auther gets better job and/or something better to do with his time.
5. Everyone loses.
As a (very) long time reader of your blog, I'm afraid that IMHO you now hit 4 out of 6 of the above points, Jeff. But the same process goes for most popular personal blogs, unfortunately.
Andrew on March 7, 2008 2:44 AMIt'd be one thing if I was exhorting some poor soul to become a blogger just because I can. You already are one, and a damn good one, too. And you're giving it up for no apparent reason whatsoever.
He's giving it up because he feels like it. Because it doesn't bring him an appropriate level of happiness. I don't see how it needs any more justification than that.
Maybe part of the reason Dare no longer feels interested in writing is because of reasons just like this. People getting way too invested in what is basically an online journal.
You put yourself out in front of thousands of people every day. It's like having a party in your house that never ends. And your guests are complaining! Unless you have a cover charge, or really enjoy the attention, it starts to seem less like a good idea.
Matt on March 7, 2008 5:21 AMThe comments to this entry are closed.
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