Introducing Stackoverflow.com

April 16, 2008

A little over a month ago, I announced that I was quitting my job. But there was also something else I didn't fully announce.

But I refuse to become a full-time blogger. I think that's a cop-out. If I look at the people I respect most in the industry, the people I view as role models-- Paul Graham, Joel Spolsky, Steve Yegge, Eric Sink, Rich Skrenta, Marc Andreesen, Wil Shipley, Douglas Crockford, Scott Guthrie -- they all have one thing in common. They're not just excellent writers and communicators. They build stuff, too. The world has enough vapid commentary blogs. I want to build stuff-- and talk about it. I have a little micro-ISV startup opportunity I'll be working on, a web property I'm building out with one of the above people. I'm not ready to announce the details yet, but when I do, you'll read about it here.

The "building stuff", as you helped us determine, is stackoverflow.com. It's a small company Joel Spolsky and I are founding together.

If you've been reading my blog for a while, you might find this pairing strange. It's true that I've been critical of Joel in the past. And it is sort of funny that I own the number one image search result and a top 10 search result for Joel Spolsky. Good thing Joel has a sense of humor.

Occasionally I'll meet readers, or get emails from readers, who tell me that they enjoy my blog... and oh-by-the-way they strongly disagree with a few things I've said. Their phrasing clearly implies that they think there's something wrong with this. Well, there isn't. I'm here to tell you that occasional disagreement is healthy and normal. If you agree with everything I write here, why would you bother reading? At that point, we're the same person. I distrust people who agree with me all the time. I want someone to push back and encourage me to question my assumptions.

I admire what Joel has created. He was one of the earliest programming bloggers, and certainly one of the first I found that helped me realize the kind of positive influence writing could have on my fellow programmers. He is very much living the dream: he founded a company with the express intent of not cashing out with VC money, but creating a sustainible place where programmers can have fun while programming useful stuff. It's an honor to have the opportunity to work closely with Joel, and to combine the collective power of our two communities.

So what is stackoverflow?

From day one, my blog has been about putting helpful information out into the world. I never had any particular aspirations for this blog to become what it is today; I'm humbled and gratified by its amazing success. It has quite literally changed my life. Blogs are fantastic resources, but as much as I might encourage my fellow programmers to blog, not everyone has the time or inclination to start a blog. There's far too much great programming information trapped in forums, buried in online help, or hidden away in books that nobody buys any more. We'd like to unlock all that. Let's create something that makes it easy to participate, and put it online in a form that is trivially easy to find.

Are you familiar with the movie pitch formula?

Stackoverflow is sort of like the anti-experts-exchange (minus the nausea-inducing sleaze and quasi-legal search engine gaming) meets wikipedia meets programming reddit. It is by programmers, for programmers, with the ultimate intent of collectively increasing the sum total of good programming knowledge in the world. No matter what programming language you use, or what operating system you call home. Better programming is our goal.

Of course, there's more to it than that. Joel and I are recording our weekly calls and releasing them as podcasts. Listen to us describe our vision for stackoverflow in our own words -- just head over to stackoverflow.com to download the first 46 minute episode. We're even taking questions, if you submit them in the form of audio recordings.

Posted by Jeff Atwood
196 Comments

Maybe I ought to mention my number one peeve about ExEx hits in Google then. I might not be unique.

I detest following a link that ends up saying "Sorry Charlie, you have to register here in order to get what we told the web spiders we have to offer you about this!"

I always assume there's a hidden catch too if I were to follow up, like another browser toolbar, some kind of spyware requirement, etc.

fudge on April 16, 2008 6:08 AM

What? No rss reed for the podcast!

EHaskins on April 16, 2008 6:19 AM

WOW! That is great news. Congratulations!

Big Fan on April 16, 2008 6:19 AM

so stackoverflow.com was the winning name?
curiously only this weekend i doing tree balancing experiments and vc ended my execution without so much as a whisper as to what was wrong. after awhile i realized i was overflowing the stack with recursion. vc was quiet about it because i wasn't doing a check of some kind i suppose but i would have thought the system would say something about it. i guess you took away its voice by coveting the name. curious coincidence... good name though for you site. good luck with it as well.

jim maida on April 16, 2008 6:31 AM

Awesome, really looking forward to this Jeff.

Thanks!

Bob Somers on April 16, 2008 6:35 AM

I detest following a link that ends up saying "Sorry Charlie, you have
to register here in order to get what we told the web spiders we have to
offer you about this!"

Scroll down to the bottom of the page... the answers are there*, no registration required.

* (Works On My Computer certified)

Edlin on April 16, 2008 6:37 AM

Fudge-

The joke about ExEx and the "you must register to view these answers" is that you DON'T have to--just scroll waaaaaaaaaay down the page past the scrambled answers and the big pile of adds, and the real answers are posted.

Congrats, Jeff! I'll be taking a look!

BradC on April 16, 2008 6:38 AM

Not to be negative, but one thing I disagree with you on is your use of bold type. Every time I read one of your posts, I can't help but get the impression that your key points and conclusions are in bold because the reader is somehow not smart enough to grasp their importance otherwise. For some reason this frustrates me to no end. I would enjoy reading much more if it was used more sparingly. Anyway, just an opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

Brad on April 16, 2008 6:50 AM

This is going to delve into a hearty discussion of EX-EX I'm sure heh I registered years ago before they had the crappy formula they have now. I still find it fairly useful.

However, great to see Jeff. I'd assumed this was what your new community was going to be about and I'm grateful. It should be a really excellent resource and I look forward to watching the startup unfold.

`Josh on April 16, 2008 6:50 AM

I haven't gotten through the podcast quite yet.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this site. I know I'll be tuning in.

Marc Reside on April 16, 2008 6:51 AM

congrats Jeff and Joel. I hope the site will have the content that we all wish we had access too. Something a bit more thought engaging than tutorial du-juour ala code project or 4 guys from rolla.

mikester on April 16, 2008 7:11 AM

Looks like you need someone to design the site!

Josh Stodola on April 16, 2008 7:14 AM


I know you got a to do with creating a CMS, wiki, whatnot and getting thigns ready for launch..*BUT*....

RSS your podcast. Seriously. If I can't put you into iTunes and by extension my ipod you might as well not exist. Its the only way I keep up with Hanselminutes and .NET Rocks!

itunesfan on April 16, 2008 7:15 AM

How dare you dis expert-sex-change! They have the best domain in the business ;)

zL1n0x on April 16, 2008 7:23 AM

Methinks too many people think what they're seeing on stackoverflow.com is the finished product...

*rolls eyes*

Bob Somers on April 16, 2008 7:25 AM

I too, think that an RSS feed for the podcast would be more than handy.

Chris Johnstone on April 16, 2008 7:27 AM

I'm looking forward to it Jeff!

And on a side note, I believe the ExEx trick is to view it with Google cache and scroll to the bottom for answers.

Steve on April 16, 2008 7:31 AM

Where is the RSS feed? The page mentioned a podcast.


:)

Posted on April 16, 2008 7:36 AM

This should be fun. :)

John Lawson on April 16, 2008 7:39 AM

What's this new site going to give us that places like CodeProject.com don't already provide in their articles and forums?

(I haven't listened to the podcast; I'd usually much rather read a text transcript, or skip the information entirely, than listen to someone speak. Maybe that's just me being weird like that, though. :) )

Whatever the new site is exactly, best of luck with it!

Leo Davidson on April 16, 2008 7:52 AM

You and Joel together! This is going to be great. Didn't see that one coming. Congratulation to both of you! I will definitely be a routine visitor there. Looking forward to this one.

Is it going to be "orange" too? :-)

Paulus on April 16, 2008 7:55 AM

Funny. Just the other day I discovered CustomizeGoogle and used it to block ExEx from my Google results. I didn't know about any trick--is it worth it?

+1 for transcripts. I don't do audio.

+1 on the name - I like it!

Rhywun on April 16, 2008 7:59 AM

How about change programmers to developers? Not everthing is about programming, like the lenghty articles on Joel on Software about UI, almost nothing in those are about programming per se. Anyway, good initiative.

Hoffmann on April 16, 2008 7:59 AM

In before wasabi.

Just kidding. Congrats!

Andrew Burton on April 16, 2008 8:04 AM

Atwood and Spolsky in one place?!?? I'm already addicted.

One of the startups I've been thinking of for a while is an experts-exchange "done right". I'm intrigued at how this will work out. How do you get quality answers? I was on a forum yesterday, something to do with XPath and one of the responses was "You could try this...". People that post "you could try" are annoying. How do you filter the good vs annoying? People rate the response? How do you get them to rate the response? How often does someone "rate" the on-line MSDN help? Rarely. OK, off to the podcast.

MattH on April 16, 2008 8:20 AM

Why this could be good: it'll provide actual useful stuff from competent and capable people, instead of teenagers paraphrasing MSDN documentation and passing it off as a brilliant contribution to humanity. Honestly - tutorials that are newbies describing their misinterpretation of what they've figured out from sparse documentation can, on occasion, also not be helpful.

Why it could easily suck: either too little content, or emphasising quantity over quality thus leading to crap content.

Still, I'm praying there's a god who'll make sure it's not another "we'll get people to provide all the content for free and then we'll make lots and lots of money from the goggle ads" site. Unless the people providing the content are getting the cash I'ld rather have another "vapid commentary blog" because at least the guy making the money would have to write something that keeps people reading.

Bob on April 16, 2008 8:27 AM

Alas, I find podcasts to be way too time consuming. I love the name of the web site - it will have good branding and name recognition for programmers. I've been considering doing a similar thing with TheCompilerIsYourFriend ... but just haven't been able to find the time since I've been busy ..oh... getting married ! :)

Andrew Finkenstadt on April 16, 2008 8:29 AM

Sounds like a great idea! I don't know of any site that adequately gathers programming information in one place like this. I'm really looking forward to using the site.

anonymous on April 16, 2008 8:30 AM

I blogged about this a while ago. I call it the expert-novice problem. Your site won't solve anything. There are plenty of excellent, free forums where programmers hang out and help each other. What's missing from your idea is incentive. Why should an expert spend his valuable time educating newbies? Out of kindness, I sometimes answer programming questions I see on various forums, but most of the time I don't bother because I have better things to do. How are you improving this situation?

Larry Bank on April 16, 2008 8:36 AM

For those who choose not to download the "podcast" - it is interesting, but only about 10-15% of it has any connection to the new site. The rest is a somewhat randomly rambling, but still interesting, discussion about web technology, Microsoft's changing position in the marketplace, laptops, Vista vs XP vs OSX, blogging, programming documentation, etc.

I don't know that a transcript would be all that helpful :)

BradC on April 16, 2008 8:45 AM

Hi Jeff this is great - will be listening to podcast #1 tomorrow.

I think this partnership is great because I when I speak of you I often speak of Joel and vis-versa. In my opinion you two have by far the most entertaining, educational, convincing and impactful writing styles of all bloggers I read. There's a *significant* difference in the quality of your guy's posts and everyone else's.

I just hope you keep blogging at the same "intensity". Joel is an amazing writer, but he's really pulled back from the depth of posts he would do 2/3+ years ago. The stuff from his book was brilliant and I wish he still did that type of writing. I just hope you don't do the same.

Regards,
Matt

ps Plan to make an RSS feed for the podcast?

Matt on April 16, 2008 8:46 AM

Well guys, Larry said it won't work, so let's pack it up and call it a day... :P

Unlike the people above, I like the audio podcast format. I drive long distances on the weekends and technical podcasts that keep my brain engaged are what keep me from falling asleep at the wheel!

Bob Somers on April 16, 2008 8:50 AM

Hmmm...

I guess I'll give you both the benefit of the doubt because I've enjoyed reading both of your blogs over the years.

That said, I'm wondering if this may be a move in a direction away from what I found valuable about both of your sites: that they were general enough to apply to many different languages, platforms and technologies. A site for collecting "good programming knowledge" inevitably will get specific and detailed, and since I'm a Python/MySQL/Mac guy, I'm not sure a site managed by Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky will be the best resource for my detailed technical questions. How can you compete with comp.lang.python? Or other communities that have the core developers actively participating?

As for a podcast, you need to do a little homework on the status quo. Download a few technical podcasts from iTunes and play around with them. All the good ones have track indexes and notes that give you "random access" to the podcast. And all of them have some sort of subscription capability like RSS. You really should put some effort into doing this part of the site right if you want to keep people interested.

Still, like I said, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and form my opinion after a couple of months of seeing and listening to what you guys have to say.

Good luck!

David Avraamides on April 16, 2008 8:51 AM

Hasn't this all been done before, what makes yours different. ho hum.

Alan on April 16, 2008 8:52 AM

My first thought -- one that I hope you've thought long and hard about, but I mention it just in case -- is: What's your plan and strategy for moderating things?

Personally, I'm a big supporter of the beliefs of BoingBoing's new message-board moderator (Teresa Nielsen Hayden), which roughly amount to "a moderator is necessary for keeping discourse on a polite and respectful level, because obnoxious twits beget more obnoxious twits and then all the valuable contributors leave."

For a site like this, it may -- or may not -- be useful to do "that's off-topic here but useful, I'll move it" sorts of moderation as well. Depends, I guess, on whether you're expecting thread titles or deep-search to be the primary way of finding things, and whether the damage to conversations is worth it.

Brooks Moses on April 16, 2008 8:58 AM

Behold the combined power that is Jeff and Joel! I’m glad you’ve thrown it out there that stackoverflow is ‘by programmers, for programmers’, otherwise I’d be afraid of the havoc you two could wreak. As a relatively inexperienced programmer, I am really looking forward to seeing what this will become. Congrats and good luck.

David Hodges on April 16, 2008 9:03 AM

Excellent... now.. where's the RSS?

Paulo on April 16, 2008 9:04 AM

Shouldn't it be stackoverflow.org if it's free?

Brianary on April 16, 2008 9:05 AM

I was just looking at ExEx today and wondering "why isn't there a better replacement for this," congratulations to the two of you, I'm really looking forward to what this ends up providing.

(Also, I'm surprised that stackoverflow.com was available!)

David Dugan on April 16, 2008 9:05 AM

Love the concept for your site. Unfortunately I think you guys should invest in some audio equipment and/or audio recording lessons. The sound quality is really not up to snuff. I may be biased since I work at a radio organization where audio quality is paramount. Scott Hanselman does an amazing job of his podcasts, so maybe he can help you guys get started with that stuff.

Oh, and RSS please!

Thanks for everything you've done thus far you guys!

Scott

Scott Muc on April 16, 2008 9:14 AM

There's definitely room on this internet for an Expert sex change that doesn't suck. Best of luck to the pair of you.

Slightly off-topic:
@MattH: 'People that post "you could try" are annoying.'

There's something wrong with you.

Eam on April 16, 2008 9:31 AM

Joel's post on this (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/04/16.html) concerns me a bit because he says:

"Instead, they (programmers) happily program away, using trial-and-error. When they can't figure something out, they type a question into Google."

I can't even begin to emphasize how BAD of an idea it would be to create a new site that lets "google, copy, paste, and tweak-till-it-works" programmers do those 4 steps faster. You'll just make faster, well, as Mark Pilgrim calls them, "morons" (http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/08/16/specs).

It's because of morons that I routinely am unable to use a plus sign in my e-mail address on the web.

What would be great though would be a programming "Q A" site where "a-holes" (again, using Mark Pilgrim terminology) could help "morons" learn how to read/use/love "the spec".

This, perhaps, could be as simple as including a section for each question for links to authoritative references.

So when some "moron" comes in and says "how can I validate an e-mail address?", I and my fellow "a-holes" can a.) give them an immediate answer; but also b.) point them to the e-mail RFC, a reference on writing regular expressions, etc., etc.

Give a moron a fish, he'll eat for a day.
Teach a moron to be an a-hole, his stack will overflow?

kazoolist on April 16, 2008 9:45 AM

I'm just listening to your podcast and you or Joel were saying about your tutorials/forum. I am just wondering about how the tutorials are going to work is it going to be submit an entry in a similar way to wikipedia maybe categorized by language then later allowing other registered users to edit it.

I suppose editing would need to go through a bit of manual checking but I can't imagine much abuse on a site added to by programmers for programmers.

Also the suggestion of rating similar to digg on articles and forum posts sounds great.

pete on April 16, 2008 9:48 AM

FWIW... To view the ExEx content from a google search just click on the cached page. That will give you what google thought was relevant.

AnonyMouse on April 16, 2008 9:50 AM

The new http://www.stackoverflow.com/ Web site, as presently conceived, is inaccessible to deaf software developers.
It is not only inaccessible but also rudely inaccessible.

TDDPirate on April 16, 2008 9:57 AM

This "new concept" already exists. Look: http://snipplr.com/

Alex on April 16, 2008 10:13 AM

Hi Jeff, congrats!
But please add RSS support.

10x

Tudor Vlad on April 16, 2008 10:20 AM

For the record, this is my first time posting on CodingHorror.com. Anyways, I don't think this site will work, mostly for the simple fact that you guys can't agree on anything! Based on the first podcast, Joel says some seriously ignorant shit about Microsoft, and Jeff replies with some passive words: "right", "right". Then, Jeff says some things about how Microsoft has done this and that, and then Joel says, "yeah, yeah", "no!", "yeah", and Jeff basically says "there's no reason to attack Microsoft", just because they are weaker than in the past.

The fact that Joel is a REALLY smart individual, and that Jeff is an even smarter one, makes it entirely hilarious (if anything) because one hates Microsoft, and one is donating to .NET OSS; But seriously, you're two totally different personalities, which means you should probably both go your own way(s). Maybe make guest posts on each other's web sites, but that's all. Keep Joel away from Jeff's greater level of intelligence, for the love of god.

Also, about Joel's comments on not using books: You're stupid. Books, when not used as a TEXT book for University (from my personal experience), and the reader WANTS to learn about the topic, is MUCH better than what you can find online. Most things found online are shitty answers by professors at half-assed universities, or very weak articles posted on wikipedia.

Thanks,

Josh

Joshua Gosse on April 16, 2008 10:21 AM

Regarding the missing rss, I know it is lame to complain about ease of access when it is all about the content, or about accuracy at this early stage, but something irks me real bad when supposedly tech-savvy people call "podcast" an mp3 file. What else do they not get at all?

alex on April 16, 2008 10:25 AM

You and Joel together! This is going to be great. Didn't see that one coming. Congratulation to both of you! I will definitely be a routine visitor there. Looking forward to this one.

Completely in agreement here... What a combo! And left the rest of us completely blindsided. :)

ExEx ? pfft... DaniWeb's got that beat, IMHO.

Now wait.. the two of you are opening a site together... that offers free stuff... how is this going to be a "company" or a "startup"? For example, without getting too specific, what's your plans for revenue? Advertising like here at CH ? If so, this is nothing more than another forum or place of discussion on technical subjects... far cry from a new business where either you sink in debt or float in profits. Do please elaborate on how this is the new business you quit your day job for. :)

Oh by the way.. are you hiring? :D

Patrick on April 16, 2008 10:26 AM

fantastic, best of luck

dermot on April 16, 2008 10:32 AM

I just wanted to say to Brad that I like the way Jeff uses bold to highlight important points. When I am scanning or reading through the page, I focus a little bit more on the words in bold. It makes me pause and think.

I actually detest bloggers and journalists who doesn't provide a quick way to scan their main points.

raavan on April 16, 2008 10:41 AM

+1 more request for an RSS feed.

Alek Davis on April 16, 2008 11:01 AM

@Eam - There is plenty wrong with me, but perhaps my wording wasn't qualified enough. When looking for design/architecture ideas the "you could try" answers are great. When asking "how do I compare dates using xpath?" the "you could try" answers are rarely of value. If you don't know the answer then don't respond; or at least qualify the response - "if you mean this, then try this..."

Anyway, congrats Jeff and Joel. I'm eagerly awaiting more details.

MattH on April 16, 2008 11:22 AM

@Brad -- I see no "bold type", just blue text indicating links. You know, hypertext, as in the whole point of this web thing.

Stan Rogers on April 16, 2008 11:24 AM

Great! Can't wait for stackoverflow.com to get up and running :)

Samuli on April 16, 2008 11:54 AM

I hope you don't allow people with certifications to provide answers to questions. Those guys can be downright assholes...

Bob Maguire on April 16, 2008 12:08 PM

@Stan:

Might want to get your eyes checked. There's plenty of bold text in this post, albeit less so than usual.

Not that I have a problem with it. Used sensibly it can help convey a point. After all, the punctuation, sentence structure, and paragraph breaks all convey very little information but to help the moron readers parse the content well :). I count six blocks of boldface (I might have missed one), including a couple instances of bolded hyperlinks. The Internet is not paper, and you need images and format changes to make it work.

Are you using a browser not in the "big four"?

Ens on April 16, 2008 12:08 PM

Sweet.

I can't wait to post up examples of "hello lolcat" in every language and reap the karma.

Or were lolcats last year's meme?

engtech on April 16, 2008 12:10 PM

We've seen this sort of thing before. I suppose I'm imagining a message board, divided by topic, which has a google/yahoo! ask style of posting, where when a question is answered it is marked as such.

How would this be different? How would it distinguish itself? If I have a question about (for example) a Mac programming issue, or a .Net library programming issue, why would I go to stackoverflow instead of the Apple or Microsoft developer forums?

I would imagine that "community" is half of the answer. I have a suggestion for the rest: Posting code on forums is notoriously irritating. It would be nice to be able to post code to the site to ask questions about, but have the site automatically add syntax highlighting based on the type of code. How? By adding markup tags based on the language, such as:

[c++]class foo{};[/c++] [python]class foo: pass[/python] [intel-assembly]mov eax, 42[/intel-assembly]

At first, you don't even have to implement the syntax highlighting for all languages, just make it do fixed-width font, then add syntax highlighting for individual languages incrementally.

Edited to add second suggestion: Perhaps you should allow forum members to tag posts arbitrarily, so that if someone posts a question about a language (or library) that doesn't have a forum dedicated to it, you can still search/sort/filter based on it. The best example of this is Python which has a few "sub-languages" and a few alternative implementations. What if you have an IronPython specific question? Post it under the Python forum (or the dynamic languages forum) and tag it as IronPython. Have a question about the Boo programming language (arguably a sub-language of Python)? Then post it in the Python forum and tag it with Boo.

leculver on April 16, 2008 12:11 PM

Sweet! Another great podcast! I haven't found one I really like other than Hanselminutes, and I'd like more to listen to on the bus. 30-45 minutes is the perfect length. DOTNET Rocks is a little too long for me. I'm looking forward to the site, I've been an Atwood and Spolsky fan for a while.

Lance Fisher on April 16, 2008 12:18 PM

Finished listening to the podcast, and the idea sounds interesting, though I'll definitely be curious to see how you set up the UI, moderation, and such to make sure the site remains useful and isn't just spammed with garbage, since those are not easy problems to solve from a technical standpoint (but then, many "social" style issues within community software rarely are if they are designed for a larger audience, though obviously karma systems help).

Plus of course seeing how you make it sustainable since it's going to be free to use, as after all it would suck if a ton of GREAT information was posted, but then bandwidth bills crushed the site taking it offline because it got too expensive to maintain.

Hopefully in the end it pans out well for you though, and good luck.

Patrick Sullivan on April 16, 2008 12:22 PM

Now talk about vaporware... you ain't got notting yet!

Podcasts? Not my thing.

Please let me know when you have something to boast about (until then, please refrain from bugging me/us). I hope you take that as some constructive criticism. In your Podcast you've probably talked about all the nice features you want to implement. Probably you can implement some of these features in short time, and afterwards expand...

GUI Junkie on April 16, 2008 12:31 PM

Cool! I hope that it goes well! I'm curious if you're planning to monetize (maybe some unobtrusive ads?) or if you're going ad-free?

Either way, best wishes on the new project!

Matt Cutts on April 16, 2008 12:45 PM

coding horror, stack overflow, .. what is your next project, infinite-loop? :) I always get some nice comments from non-tech co-workers when they catch me read coding horror.

anyway, looking forward to see this project expand. I have read both blogs for several years, nice to see that you can work something out.

I have one request, can you guys chant "developers, developers, developers... " at the next postcast? :)

Peter Palludan on April 16, 2008 12:53 PM

A marriage made in heaven. You've been quite hard on Joel in the past so I would never have expected this.

Cracker on April 17, 2008 2:10 AM

Good Luck Jeff and thanx for entertaining us programmers :)

Saurabh on April 17, 2008 2:15 AM

The main image on http://www.stackoverflow.com/ is blocked by my work's WebSense (as it's hosted by imageshack)
Just thought I'd let you know as it may be a site used by many people at work and I'd hate stackoverflow to be blocked by Websense by association.

Paul James on April 17, 2008 2:36 AM

You had me at “anti-experts-exchange”. Kudos and good luck!

Konrad on April 17, 2008 2:56 AM

I'll be following how this progresses with great interest (as well as the responses to it). Very interesting if only because of your involvement together with Joel Spolsky.

While intriguing that you'll only be communicating (at first) via podcast, I also agree that transcripts would be helpful.

Ted Jardine on April 17, 2008 3:07 AM

I have to say I'm totally confused as to what the point of this site is. There's one image and an mp3. Sorry, I don't want to listen to an mp3 right now, I prefer reading text. So the site for me right now has zero useful content.

I'm thinking of Joel's old "Good software takes ten years" article where he mentions you shouldn't overhype your version 1.0. Otherwise you end up with "Marimba syndrome" where everybody thinks your app is pointless cause it's got no features - yet.

"Let's create something that makes it easy to participate, and put it online in a form that is trivially easy to find."

What - like discuss.joelonsoftware.com? Say what you like about the content but it's easy to participate and easy to find.

This site's also got a "chicken and egg" problem. To start with, I'm unlikely to post there because there won't be many readers, and I'm unlikely to read there because not too many people are likely to be posting stuff I want. Where's your backwards compatability solution to get out of this?

I mean, good luck with your venture and all, but have I _completely_ missed the point of what this is about?

Ritchie Swann on April 17, 2008 3:19 AM

just a (little) request. maybe it would be a good idea to present the audio in a zip file or similar. not because of the compression, but just because my company is blocking MP3 downloading in general.
tia

al on April 17, 2008 3:21 AM

Sorry you move to podcasts. I still have to download one of them to my IPod, since with two young kids I just get to browse through some feeds while nursing them, I'd have huge problems to listen to anything more complicated than music.
Moreover, podcasts are not searchable, which makes it a big downside to something which would contain advice for programming issues.

Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it and maybe participate with a question or two I have on my mind.

Matteo Fortini on April 17, 2008 3:31 AM

I'm listening to the first podcast episode now.

Please, can you record your podcast in a better audio quality than telephone-quality? I can understand you very well, but it would be much nicer to listen to if the audio quality (sample rate) was better.

Jasper on April 17, 2008 3:41 AM

Congrats. Sounds like a good site.
I am wondering since you quit your day job, what is your revenue model going to be? I didn't see advertising mentioned, it that the route?

Anon-E-Mouse on April 17, 2008 3:51 AM

Why didn't you use a DOCTYPE? ;)
present the audio in a zip file or similar
The main image is blocked by my work's WebSense

Fixed.

Still hate the name, but it is what it is.

I hear you. It's difficult to appreciate how hard naming is until you have to do it! But yes, stackoverflow.com it is.

What - like discuss.joelonsoftware.com? Say what you like about the content but it's easy to participate and easy to find. This site's also got a "chicken and egg" problem.

We will be seeding stackoverflow.com with content from discuss.joelonsoftware.com ; the programming forums there will be disabled and users directed to the new site.

I find podcasts to be way too time consuming
I haven't listened to the podcast; I'd usually much rather read a text transcript

I also am no fan of podcasts, but Joel believes it adds another dimension to our writing when you can hear voice, intonation, etcetera. Please listen to the next podcast, I will specifically bring this up so Joel can relate his thoughts on this. Yes, I *know* it's ironic to ask people who don't enjoy podcasts to listen to one that explains why they might want to. :) We'll do it at the very beginning so you don't have to listen to the whole thing!

The podcast is mostly a side effect of work that Joel and I already do -- we have these weekly calls, and we thought some people might enjoy them. That said, I rarely if ever listen to podcasts so believe me, I totally get where you're coming from.

Jeff Atwood on April 17, 2008 3:52 AM

Got a transcript? Podcasts are all but impossible for the hard of hearing :(

Ususally I don't complain, but I'm really interested in finding out more here

steph on April 17, 2008 3:53 AM

Come on Jeff - you gotta have an RSS feed for the podcast :)

Why are you only taking questions in the form of audio recordings? That seems like a real inefficiency. How do I browse open questions or previously answered questions?

Steve on April 17, 2008 4:03 AM

Hi Jeff!

I also strongly believe in the power of sharing knowledge!

In fact it's because of sharing knowledge that today we can send the Man to the Moon. :)

If there's anything I could do to help you guys with this project, please, let me know!

Thank you and good luck,
Bruno Coelho

Bruno Coelho on April 17, 2008 4:09 AM

Podcast? No thanks. 46 minutes? Really, no thanks.

How about transcripts? I can process information by reading a whole
helluva lot faster than I can by listening to it.
Cliton on April 16, 2008 06:09 PM

Agreed. What about accessibility? You have your CAPTCHA "orange" accessible for the visually impaired, but make no effort to make your stackoverflow.com preview/promo accessible to the hearing impaired. I'm disappointed - I always thought you were better than that.

I hope stackoverflow.com doesn't use audio too much when it's finished. Coding is a typed activity. It doesn't _need_ audio description, and in most cases it doesn't even need diagrams. Good old fashioned text is the way to go with this project as far as I can see.

(Maybe you just recorded an MP3 because it saves typing, but for a programmer that seems a pretty lame excuse).

RWW on April 17, 2008 4:27 AM

Serious question: what's wrong with codeproject.com? I've been active there for five years and this year got an MVP award for answering questions in many of the forums.

The problem we have over there is that users often aren't rewarded for answering questions correctly - in fact often the best answers are voted down because they involve a lot of work, the all-time classic 'I wouldn't start from here', or even 'I wouldn't do that at all.' I can't really see that your site wouldn't suffer from the same problem. We already have a system where votes by people with greater reputation are weighted higher, the problem is that these people don't necessarily vote up a response (or article) that's been voted down incorrectly.

Mike Dimmick on April 17, 2008 4:27 AM

I don't know how to do RSS audio off the top of my head, but I wrote my own (text based) rss feed handler in an evening, and googling for "rss audio spec" gives me a good idea on how to implement that. And I'm no rockstar developer.

How about a compromise? You want us to listen to the podcast, I want to know what content to expect before I do that. How about putting up a few "teaser" quotes from it on the page, or a couple of small 30 seconds "highlights" for people to try out quickly, to entice them into the main event?

I have to wonder if trying to take questions in the form of audio recordings is simply a front for raising the quality barrier, since the amount of effort to ask it is so much higher.

Ritchie Swann on April 17, 2008 4:32 AM

Just checked del.icio.us and stackoverflow.com has already made it to the "hotlist", nice going Jeff!

Phil on April 17, 2008 4:36 AM

Stackoverflow is sort of like the anti-experts-exchange

I am afraid to check to see if "novice-sexchange" was taken. ;)

Michael G on April 17, 2008 4:40 AM

Wow! A cartoon that was up on the notice board in the Science Block when I started uni! That takes me back...

(That cartoon is therefore at least 25 years old and hasn't dated at all).

Congratulations, and all the best with this new venture.

Paul Coddington on April 17, 2008 4:41 AM

audio messages is nice way to build such a "dialog" with developers for sure (ha-ha), but it will be even better if you release your blah-blah as an uncompressed video..

good lack guys ;)

syh on April 17, 2008 4:43 AM

Good luck on the new site. We all need what EE promised but has only delivered clumsily.

And regarding your use of bold to highlight key points, I approve. John Dvorak was infamous for that back in the 80s, but it served its purpose very well: when the reader's too busy to read the whole damn thing, they can pick up the key points in a few seconds without wading through all of the author's ranting and raving. Not that your ranting and raving isn't entertaining, but some days are a lot busier than others.

Doug on April 17, 2008 4:57 AM

I'm really looking forward to this - my hope is that it'll become my first point of call.

If you can get rid of my two pet hates, I'll be a very happy man.
1. "Sorry, you have to pay us money to see the answer!" and
2. Original Poster: "Oh, don't worry, I figured out how to do it".

Damian Brady on April 17, 2008 5:04 AM

I love the idea of stackoverflow.com. So many programmers Google for answers that it would be nice if there were some sort of quality control on the results they get. No obtrusive ads is also a plus.

Joe Chung on April 17, 2008 5:09 AM

I look forward to listening to the podcast while doing the dishes. I like podcasts for when I have to do something boring or mindless. What's the license on it? Would somebody be allowed to make and publish a transcript?

Weeble on April 17, 2008 5:12 AM

re: ExpertS-exChange.com - you do NOT have to click the 'cache' link, disable javascript, or any other 'tricks'. All you have to do is scroll ALL the way down, past what looks like the end of the page. The answers are there in plain text.

Not that it doesn't suck, of course. I'm looking forward to this new site Jeff (and Joel)!

Phil on April 17, 2008 5:17 AM

I know some of you might find this hard to believe, but occasionally I am away from my computer. A podcast, allows me to follow tech. stuff when I am at the gym or in the car. Also, podcast implies iPod, not computer audio file.

There is a UI lesson involved: It doesn't matter how good your content is, if the user can't find it or access it EASILY, it may as well just not exist.

Congratulations on the new venture!!

David

David on April 17, 2008 5:32 AM

I find it confusing experts exchange is still in business.

When I go googling for an answer for something I need assistance with, if I inadvertantly click on an expertsexchange link, as soon as I see the, "LOGIN PLEASE!" screen, I click back, and inevitably find exactly what I'm looking for elsewhere.

It's idiotic.

dnm on April 17, 2008 5:50 AM

Also, I don't know what to make of stackoverflow.com.

I don't agree with everything you say, but I respect you.

I think Joel Spolsky is a raging douchebag/toolbox.

It's a conundrum.

dnm on April 17, 2008 5:52 AM

Jeff, I'm anxious to see how stackoverflow will develop, but PLEASE FIX THE SOUND QUALITY! 32Kbps really sucks, why don't you make it at least 128Kbps VBR? And while Joel sounds terrible, Jeff's voice is so garbled that it's totally unrecognizable.

Domchi on April 17, 2008 5:57 AM

While podcasts may add a whole new dimension (voice), text transcripts also add whole new dimensions (ability to skim rapidly, ability to index for searching, access by the hard-of-hearing, probably a few others). Seems to me like providing BOTH is an absolute benefit... then the listener/reader has a choice.

Speaking of which, if you are looking for volunteers to help transcribe it, let me know. (I WON'T do so without invitation - doesn't quite seem polite.) In keeping with the open source ethos, I'm not complaining about what you're sharing for free, I'm just offering to help improve it!

Michael Chermside on April 17, 2008 5:58 AM

"Sorry Charlie, you have to register here in order to get what we told the web spiders we have to offer you about this!"

Just choose "Cache" from the Google results page and you see what Google saw anyway (no scrambling + no registration!).

Andrew on April 17, 2008 5:59 AM

I third/fourth the request for transcripts, not all of us are native english speakers.

Also, if we're discussing any sort of community based system, tagging is a must. Not because it's a buzz word feature, but because no single answer or question deals with one category of coding. Some questions span all languages, other deal with odds and ends of one language, some deal with networking, you see what I mean.

Good luck!

Daniel on April 17, 2008 6:13 AM

Congrats, guys! You and Joel are my two favorite bloggers hands down, and I'm excited to see what you pull off

Danimal on April 17, 2008 6:34 AM

Hey Jeff, make joel ask you questions or something. The conversation is barely balanced - he can't stop talking and you're obviously more introverted. I'm sure you can figure out how to talk more, but I'm not sure you realize it. Do you plan on getting other help on this project?

Anyway, something like wikipedia would be great. Its greatest strength being the ability to save historical information. Seeing a progression of information would help a lot of programmers in the future. Keep up the good work.

Suggestor on April 17, 2008 6:40 AM

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