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programming and human factors
by Jeff Atwood
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The Garmin Nuvi GPS first got my attention when it came not just recommended, but insanely recommended by Jason Fried in late 2005.
So, back to the 350… Oh wow. The Nuvi 350 is insanely good. Next to the iPod it's the the best piece of consumer electronics I've purchased in the last 5 years. It really is that good. It's perfectly executed.
In early 2006, Jan Miksovsky heaped similar levels of ebullient praise on the the Nuvi:
Garmin and other manufacturers have been making GPS units since the late 1980s, and during that time have continually made incremental improvements in size, form factor, performance, and UI. From time to time I've looked at the category, but beyond the flat-out magic of finding your way using satellites, I found little captivating about the products themselves. GPS units have suffered from a wide range of UI problems, such as the heavy use of jargon, awkward use of a few buttons to accomplish complex tasks (such as entering an address), and cumbersome systems for transferring maps to a device with limited memory.Sometimes you encounter a product and get the strong feeling its the first one in its category to really be Designed, with a capital "D". In my case, TomTom had the first GPS with that distinction. From the branding to the startup sound to the UI, they had clearly thought about the product as a consumer experience. Despite breaking that ground, I still felt that the TomTom product I saw came up short.
The Garmin Nuvi is the first GPS I've seen that meets my bar for a good user experience. They've given a lot of thought to an overall package of functionality a traveler might want in a single pocket device. In addition to the GPS, the Nuvi unit includes an MP3 player, a photo vault, a currency converter, a world clock, a foreign language dictionary, and a travel guide. This is a good sign that Garmin's considering the overall user experience of the device, not just trying to make a housing for a satellite receiver.
I've used Microsoft Streets and Trips and an external USB GPS device to navigate unfamiliar areas for years. I've sort of ignored GPS devices until now, because at $500+ I figured my laptop was "good enough." It's the same solution I relied on when I moved to California in 2005. The laptop is unwieldy and sometimes frankly even a little dangerous as a navigation device, but people -- myself included -- will do crazy things to save a buck.
It's amazing the difference two years can make.
Prices have crashed on the Nuvi GPS models. I picked up a refurbished Nuvi 200W for $170 shipped. I'm a proud member of the Nuvi club at last.
After using it for about two weeks, I feel like an idiot for waiting so long.
I agree with Jan and David. The Nuvi offers an outstanding consumer experience in every possible way. I'd rate it up there with the original Tivo. Everything about it just works, to the point that it completely breaks you of the old ways of navigation. I'm so late to the party that I'm not sure I can add much more than Jan and David did in their excellent reviews, not to mention the thousands of other rave reviews on the internet. All I can offer is a belated confirmation that, yes, it is that good.
Bear in mind that I am an utter and complete GPS newbie. I don't geocache and to be completely honest, I don't even like to leave the house that much if I can avoid it. I'm what you might call an indoor enthusiast. There may be other GPS devices with better features or more functionality. I've been told the Nuvi 205W is an updated version of this older model I have, which partially explains why it's such a great deal. I do know enough to recommend the widescreen models; the pseudo-3D presentation scales much better on wider screens.
I also have one bit of accessory advice. You'll want a good universal mount for your GPS, and I can highly recommend this $12 Bracketron GPS friction mount.
This clever little add-on converts your default suction mount into a super flexible go-anywhere dashboard mount. Taking the GPS along in any vehicle becomes a no brainer. Just lay it anywhere on the dash, plug it into the cigarette lighter port for power, and off you go. It's rock solid.
I used to think of GPS devices as high-end geeky toys. Based on my Nuvi experience, that's no longer true. They're now so inexpensive, practical, and easy to use that -- exactly like Tivo did for DVRs -- everyone should have one. Really. If you don't have a GPS device, or if you think your parents or family could use one, but have been turned off by high prices in the past, check prices on the Nuvi series and see. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
And I strongly suspect that once you have a Nuvi, like me, you'll wonder how anyone ever lived without it.
I know, I know, I have been a little gadget/hardware heavy over the last week or so. But...
1) Nuvi friggin' rocks and deserves to be highlighted, even though I'm the millionth person to do so and super late to the party.
2) Don't worry, I have some hardcore software development posts coming up. I swear!
Jeff Atwood on May 5, 2008 3:19 AMDude,
I'm glad that someone else feels the way I feel. I was one of those folks who just felt (these things were too expensive), but then after last Xmas, prices dropped. I was gonna pick up a c530 (or something like that) for about $200, but I liked the fact that the nuvi 350 was small, flat, and pocketable.
Frankly, I pop that guy out every time I get out of the car and even go as far as putting the suction mount into my glove box. It's a lil' bit awkward, but it beats a busted window.
I was a true advocate of Google maps and such, however I remember numerous times where I'd be following my directions and see a store (or something) on a side street out of the corner of my eye and think to myself: "hmmmph, I wish I could head over there", but I resisted for fear of getting off course (yes, I'm that bad at directions). Also, I do a lot of night driving and solo driving, both of which are difficult and dangerous with a paper map in hand.
This is the best tech purchase I've made (outside of my PC of course).
Baz L on May 5, 2008 3:31 AMEvery time I go to buy one of these, I'm overwhelmed by the sheer number of choices...
Calvin on May 5, 2008 3:33 AM"MP3 player, a photo vault, a currency converter, a world clock, a foreign language dictionary, and a travel guide."
God I hate convergence sometimes. I just don't need all that stuff.
I just want a simple tool, designed to do one job and do it well.
(which is why I am happy with my TomTom One)
Adding all that extra stuff may help them sell, but I'll bet that much like mobile (cell) phones, average consumers won't use any of the extra stuff after the first week and many will be horribly confused by it.
Graham Stewart on May 5, 2008 3:44 AMWow, kinda crazy that you would write about this now Jeff, because I just got a Garmin Nuvi last week. It's fantastic! Great device!
Bob Somers on May 5, 2008 3:47 AMA big group of us are graduating college this week and all moving different places in NC. I've lent my Garmin out to everyone to go find an apartment and such. Everyone who borrowed it are buying a Nuvi of their own.
I'm overwhelmed by the sheer number of choices...
That's partially why I stuck with the entry level 200W. Plus, it's cheap!
My only regret with the 200W is that I do wish it read the street names instead of just saying "turn left" or "turn right". The street names are on the screen, of course, but it's helpful to hear the street name so you look for street signs to confirm you're making the correct turn.
I just want a simple tool, designed to do one job and do it well.
Trust me, you'll never see that extra stuff on the Nuvi unless you want to. It is the ULTIMATE mom-friendly device. Heck, I'd go so far as to say it's almost grandma-friendly.
Jeff Atwood on May 5, 2008 3:57 AMHave had my Nuvi long enough to do one map update. I travel for business enough to need it to navigate strange towns but even if I know where I am going I love it for several reasons. Trip computer, man i love to fight that average speed thing. Find: Gas, Food, etc with the ability to select near my route or near destination.
Was in Shreveport last week and my client said to meet him at a steakhouse...punched in the name and bam, i was on the way.
Brian on May 5, 2008 4:04 AMHave a Nuvi myself and it's always in my dashboard.
Having one makes me wonder how people found their ways before the GPS...
Well, I remember stopping asking, driving in circles and just wasting time.
Carra on May 5, 2008 4:06 AMOh, one beef with Nuvi... One thing garmin should do is let you set up a complicated route and upload to Nuvi, I am sure there are devices out there that would do it. For now you are stuck with one way point.
Brian on May 5, 2008 4:08 AMI personally use a HTC TyTN II Mobile Phone which has TomTom Navigator included (you still have to pay a lot for the maps, e.g. 100€ (about 160$) for Western Europe).
But I prefer the navigator as part of the cell phone, because you always carry it around with you anyway.
Oh and btw...you need a "" Key on your keyboard ;) Or use the html escape uuml; cause it should be "Garmin nvi" :-)
Daniel Lehmann on May 5, 2008 4:12 AMArg I knew that would happen. The HTML escape is amp;uuml;
Daniel Lehmann on May 5, 2008 4:13 AMThat's a nice dashboard mount. I've got a cheapo suction mount that keeps falling off, and handily advertises "EXPENSIVE TECH IN THIS CAR!" to anyone walking past. Cars come with cup holders, how long before they come with designated mounting points for GPS and other devices? They could use the Proclip mounting holes or something.
My GPS is a Nokia N810 Internet Tablet with built in GPS. The mapping software is a bit simple, but it works quite well :)
PS, your captcha image is always the same...
James on May 5, 2008 4:38 AMJeff,
Didn't you write a post a while ago complaining about lots of extra unnecessary features bloating software products to the point of uselessness? Do you think there is a difference when we start to talk about bloat in hardware devices?
adrian_m on May 5, 2008 4:39 AMIs this some kind of advertisement?
greg on May 5, 2008 5:13 AMDo you think there is a difference when we start to talk about bloat in hardware devices?
Use a Nuvi yourself and tell me if you think the featureset is bloated. It's no more "bloated" than Tivo was, which is to say it is a marvel, a paragon of usability.
There are literally MILLIONS of hardware devices you can point to that have severe usability and design problems. Nuvi is not one of them. That's sort of the point here..
Jeff Atwood on May 5, 2008 5:20 AMDid you look at the Mio devices? They're Windows CE based, and start up instantly (since "off" is just "sleep"). I bought a Garmin and ended up returning it and going back to the Mio I had previously.
http://blog.stevex.net/index.php/2007/08/27/back-to-mio/
(That link and the two previous posts it links to are my GPS experiences).
There are some hacks that let you get to the Windows CE living behind the map UI in the Mio GPS, which lets you do things like install other bits of Windows CE software. It's a more hackable platform.
stevex on May 5, 2008 5:33 AMI agree with Jeff. I picked up a nuvi 660 last year, and it has all of the "extra" stuff. I never use the photo viewer, currency converter, etc. I really don't think about them being there. They're tucked out of the way in case you don't care about them, but somehow they're readily accessible if you do.
Feature bloat?
What about STUFF bloat? I know gadgets are cool in the geek kingdom and all, but do you really need more stuff? What about maps? And using google maps before you even leave so you know where you're going in the first place?
Unless you consistently travel over 100 miles to unknown areas with little or no notice I can't see the use of a GPS device for your car. Having one on hand in the middle of the wilderness, maybe.
Cybercat on May 5, 2008 5:50 AMYou can have my TomTom when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
"Unless you consistently travel over 100 miles to unknown areas with little or no notice I can't see the use of a GPS device for your car."
As a musician I often have to go places I've never been before to play a concert. The GPS enables me to drive directly to the address thereby avoiding potential stress from getting lost. It saves time, leads me directly to my destination and improves driving safety as I'm not looking at maps.
What's not to like?
erlando on May 5, 2008 5:58 AMI'm fond of my Nuvi. I could think of a few UI improvements (make the city I'm currently *in* the default when I'm searching for a location instead of making me spell it, etc.) but over all it's good.
I think a lot of the features being added to these units nowadays are superfluous, as the higher-end models do not seem to offer any improvements in their actual mapping capabilities. I would much rather have an improved system for getting map updates to market more quickly and inexpensively than a photo slideshow, mp3 player, or bluetooth interaction with my phone.
What someone needs to come up with is a way of mounting a GPS so that it can't be stolen, and you don't have to take it out of the car with you.
It's fine for newer cars with built-in GPS, except that you are obviously locked in to whatever cut-rate system they bought, but there is a definite need for more secure mountings in most cars.
MoJo on May 5, 2008 6:07 AMI own a Nuvi, and I absolutely love it.
One thing to be concerned with is leaving your charger in your car overnight. My car got broken into and the charger was stolen. They rummaged through my glove compartment looking for the actual Nuvi, but it wasn't there. I figured that I would be fine leaving the charger in the car, but it's not. Leaving the charger visible is just asking for your car to get broken into. I now make a point to hide the charger when leaving my car outside overnight.
Stephen on May 5, 2008 6:22 AMI have a Garmin Nuvi and a Magellan 3100. It only took a couple of days for me to regret buying the Garmin. If your job requires you to drive, the Magellan is the one to buy. My co-workers and I have learned this in locations from Passaic NJ to San Diego CA.
On a trip from San Diego to Claremont CA, the Nuvi wanted me to drive the last 20 miles on surface streets. On a trip back to San Diego, it wanted me to go through a gated neighborhood to get to the office, after taking me past the closest offramp.
No, I'd have to say that all you have to do is use the Magellan a couple of days and you'll grumble everytime you have to use the Garmin.
W^L+ on May 5, 2008 6:26 AMThe ultimate geek toy is a GPS mounted on your bike handlebars (I am looking at the Garmin Edge 705). You get all the benefits of confusing reality for a video game plus a way to get from A to B without stopping every few meters in an unknown area to ask for directions while adding "no, not using freeways; really".
Louis-Eric on May 5, 2008 6:31 AM"Unless you consistently travel over 100 miles to unknown areas with little or no notice I can't see the use of a GPS device for your car."
I use one all the time, even when I know where I'm going.
Why? It is useful to know when you'll arrive some where (the ETA is typically very accurate), it pings when I accidentally drift over the speed limit, it warns me about speed cameras and it is useful when I suddenly get diverted due to roadworks or accidents.
By the way, they ARE illegal to have on your dash OR your window in California and a few other states. You can still use them, just not in a distracting position. Both my Garmin Nuvi and my Magellan 3100 came with warning sheets listing these states.
W^L+ on May 5, 2008 6:36 AM"I would much rather have an improved system for getting map updates to market more quickly"
Not sure about the nuvi, but TomTom have the MapShare system where you can correct the map yourself and download corrections submitted by other users.
Graham Stewart on May 5, 2008 6:37 AMFrom a gadget loving geek perspective you haven't even mentioned the fact that the Garmin's are much more ammenable to loading your own custom maps into these devices. That allows you to load topographical maps which makes these *much* more useful IMO.
In Australia for example we have two great sources for these.
(1) the free shonky maps created from government satelite imagery
http://ezinearticles.com/?Free-Australian-Maps-for-Garmin-GPSid=637707
(2) the commercial product OzTopo http://www.gpsoz.com.au/oztopo/
It also allows you to load maps from other countries (which can be sourced from the *usual* places) more easily than with other devices.
(by the way, long time reader, first time commenter.. love the blog!)
Toby on May 5, 2008 6:43 AM"Unless you consistently travel over 100 miles to unknown areas with little or no notice I can't see the use of a GPS device for your car."
I bought my Nvi 350 T with Traffic Message Channel two months ago and even if I do the same commute everyday to work it has already saved me lots of hours by signaling me traffic jams and offering me alternative routes to my destination.
Christophe Keller on May 5, 2008 6:44 AMNot to mention the huge fun you can have when contributing to http://www.openstreetmap.org with your GPS tracks! I just love it.
Mick on May 5, 2008 6:45 AMI had been looking to replace my old GPS. Ended up going with the Navi 660.
--Kevin
Kevin Fairchild on May 5, 2008 6:56 AMI used to think of GPS devices as high-end geeky toys.
Funny, I always thought they were for people with no sense of direction or adventure.
Joe Beam on May 5, 2008 7:11 AMMom had a nuvi last time she came to visit. I don't know what model, but she paid 280 for it. I thought it was very nice.
However, for her trip back to VT I entered a specific route with about 8 way points to make it take her on the roads I thought best. I was disappointed that I could not find a way to save this "user-entered" route. Maybe that feature is there - but it wasn't obvious to me... I tested it by turning off the car and on restart the way points I'd entered were gone. The "save" button only let me save the destination... If it had this feature I'd think a lot more highly of the unit.
That said, when we were in rural eastern NC on back roads and needed gas - it directed us very nicely out of the woods.
mike b on May 5, 2008 7:14 AMhttp://i-go.com/en/news/index.php?aid=110
clode on May 5, 2008 7:15 AMhttp://i-go.com/en/news/index.php?aid=110
Yawn, saw this sort of stuff back in 2004 in Japan. Sucks we are only now getting it.
MoJo on May 5, 2008 7:21 AMMy only regret with the 200W is that I do wish it read the street names instead of just saying "turn left" or "turn right". The street names are on the screen, of course, but it's helpful to hear the street name so you look for street signs to confirm you're making the correct turn.
The Garmin Nuvi 260 does that, it was one of the first models to do so. I sell these, along with TVs and stuff, and its great to see someone enjoying them so much. :) Its why I consistently reccomend the Garmin models to everyone. The TomTom and the MIo models have QA issues, where 2/3 of them fail to work properly in some way, so cost our company a lot. Tis why we stick with Garmin now.
Have fun!
Zeroth on May 5, 2008 7:49 AMMy parents got a TomTom and they love it... proof that it must be pretty easy to use these days.
TM on May 5, 2008 8:11 AMPshaw! Long live the paper map and the men that can read and fold them!
Dave on May 5, 2008 8:19 AMAmen Dave! I dont know how we ever got anywhere without them. I see them on everyones dashboard on my daily commute. Have we de-evolved to the point where we forget our daily commute?
Pete on May 5, 2008 8:28 AMIn my experience Nuvi (mine was, before it was stolen, a Nuvi 660) is a pretty expensive and underperforming GPS. Both, the interface and its navigational abilities lagged behind a 5 year old Magellan Roadmate 500 that i bought the Nuvi to replace. Stellar reviews on Amazon and other places led me to buy Nuvi - which only served to teach me a lesson that you just can't trust the reviews: people who paid for an overpriced toy will do their damnest to like it.
Anyway, after it got stolen - i bought a cheapie Magellan (something 2000 or 200 is the model) and couldn't be happier.
So, word of caution before you buy into the hype.
Vincent Evans on May 5, 2008 8:33 AMI don't have any GPS devices yet, mostly because I thought that you also needed to subscribe to a satellite service to complete the package. I'm thinking the service is about $20/month. Am I way off here? Thanks.
JeffK on May 5, 2008 8:46 AMAm I way off here? Thanks
Yes, you're way off. There is no monthly fee for the Garmin nuvi. There is a map update fee (about $80 per map), but how often will you update maps, really? Every couple of years?
For those of you who rely on "paper maps" and "Google maps", there are other features that are useful to the Garmin. For example, finding local restaurants. Can't do that with a paper map. You can do that with Google maps, but I for one don't want to carry a $1000 laptop around in my car. IMO, this device paid for itself on a recent trip to D.C.
I also bought an "open item" dashboard friction mount. Love it, and I've never used the suction cup type mount. Like Jeff says, it advertises "expensive electronics here", where as you can tuck the friction mount somewhere where it's not visible.
Coleman on May 5, 2008 8:58 AMone quick test to make on any GPS. Can it find your house? I had to pass on the NUVI and got a tom tom instead because The eight year old development I live in was not on Garmin's maps.
Jim Cook on May 5, 2008 9:02 AMI'm not a big fan of Street and Trips anymore.. I once missed an exit and it wanted to take me on a 400 mile trip to get to where I was going (Which was only about 100 miles away)
After that, I don't trust it anymore so it doesn't get used. What a waste of a GPS receiver
devicenull on May 5, 2008 9:03 AMInteresting post. I just got a copy of this month's Consumer Reports which calls the Nuvi 350 "A Best Buy" at $350. It was also highly rated being slightly bested by two other models of the Nuvi (The 750 and 650) and the TomTom Go 920G -- all in the range of $500 to $650.
I'm hesitant to buy a GPS for $350, but under $180 sounds pretty good. In New Jersey, roads are haphazardly arranged and getting directly from point "A" to point "B" might not always be possible. There's a community about 5 miles from my house, but to get there, you have to travel about 10 miles of roadway.
The biggest pain in New Jersey are left turns. You go down a highway and left turns will rotate between making a left at the next intersection to taking a right turn onto a jug handle and looping back around. I know I want make the next turn left, but do I get into the left or right lane?
Some jug handles are merely local streets where you're suppose to make a series of right turns in order to make that initial left. Of course, the streets curve all around, and the signs that are suppose to show you the way are missing. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten lost in just making a left turn.
A GPS would be worth its weight in gold if all it told me was when I have to turn left to turn left and when I have to turn right to turn left.
David W. on May 5, 2008 9:04 AMHaving also used MS ST with the USB GPS puck on a notebook - and even a tablet PC, which worked quite well - I was prepared to be totally unimpressed with a Garmin GPS. Then a buddy loaded me his for a weekend trip and, wow, was I wrong! I thought there's no way such a tiny screen could be useful. I thought it'd be cumbersome to use. Again, I was so wrong.
The model I used - don't recall the number - features announced street names, which was really nice. I especially liked the recalc that would find me another route when I messed up and didn't make it into the off-ramp lane soon enough a couple of times.
We live in a small city and really have no day-to-day use for one of these, but there's no way I'd go visit, much less live, in a metropolitan area without one now. I've drunk the Kool-Aid and it's tasty stuff!
Rob O. on May 5, 2008 9:27 AMNow, if only someone would develop a GPS unit that I could mount on my motorcycle and ran on some form of battery power rather than a cigarette lighter (which I lack on the bike)....
Stephen on May 5, 2008 9:30 AMOne problem with the convergence (e.g., putting an MP3 player in your GPS nav) is that it makes the devices illegal in some areas.
For example, California has a prohibition against video screens in the front seat unless they are 100% dedicated to navigation or car status. Streets and Trips on a laptop in the passenger seat is against the law.
Most cell phones, even with hands-free gear, aren't legal in front of the back of the driver's seat.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27602.htm
So... is this still a coding blog or what? You're probably right that most of us would be interested in gadget articles, but we have other sources for that. This is supposed to be *coding*horror, and I can take a slight decline in the 'horror', but I'm just not going to read if it's not going to be 'coding' too...
My Fast thinks GPS navigation is for the weak.
I'm a holdout until they cram these down our throat by making them standard on every car. They kill all the fun for me, and I'd rather develop my sense of direction than a reliance on GPS.
(also sorry to parrot advertising slogans)
Evan on May 5, 2008 9:48 AM"For those of you who rely on "paper maps" and "Google maps", there are other features that are useful to the Garmin. For example, finding local restaurants. Can't do that with a paper map. You can do that with Google maps, but I for one don't want to carry a $1000 laptop around in my car. IMO, this device paid for itself on a recent trip to D.C."
How many times have you been out and spontaneously need to find a restaurant? Have we become that impulsive? There is nothing a GPS can offer me that I "NEED" to have or know. If I am going somewhere I look it up prior to leaving.
Pete on May 5, 2008 10:08 AMFor me the real win for GPS devices is city centres. I feel fairly confident I'd be able to navigate my way _to_ any city in the country the "old fashioned" way -- paper maps. But it's navigating around city centres you've never seen before, where it's constantly necessary to make snap decisions, to concentrate the entire time and is, let's face it, easy to go wrong. A GPS navigator will tell you exactly what turns to make, when, is more accurate than a human navigator (assuming you have someone in the car with you in the first place!) trying panickedly to read a map, and really shines when you take a wrong turn. Two seconds of readjustment and you're back on track again. In my opinion, they're invaluable for this sort of driving.
David House on May 5, 2008 10:15 AM"Now, if only someone would develop a GPS unit that I could mount on my motorcycle and ran on some form of battery power..."
TomTom Rider 2?
It has a 5-hour battery, is designed to be mounted on a bike and has a Bluetooth helmet connection.
"There is nothing a GPS can offer me that I "NEED" to have or know. If I am going somewhere I look it up prior to leaving."
Do you look up the latest traffic news before you go?
And the location of every speed trap?
And alternative routes in case there is a road closed?
Of course you don't "need" it. Folk managed fine without them.
But then folk managed just fine washing their clothes in the river too.
Can someone tell me if these devices require a monthly subscription/charge? How does that work? If they don't, how does it keep the maps current?
They seem cool and I'm debating picking one up, but I hate monthly fees.
Rob on May 5, 2008 10:19 AMJeff, if you avoid leaving the house if possible, how much will you use it?
Took a cab to SFO once where the cab driver had a GPS and it took him (us) to the cargo plane turnoff.
Maps are only as good/current as the people who make them.
Restaurants should be chosen either from a review, or talking to locals.
Steve on May 5, 2008 10:29 AMAren't these things illegal on the dashboard in California? In principle, I think they're great, but it seems even easier to be distracted by one than a cellphone.
Buck on May 5, 2008 10:34 AMJeff, you should do something regarding your blog font. It looks awful and it's harder to read.
Mike J. on May 5, 2008 10:37 AMHaving spent nearly $3k on PNDs in the last year, I can say pretty definitively that your experience will depend on what kind of user you are.
Live in a non-metro area and basically always follow the directions? Tom Tom is your best bet, but garmin is pretty ok too.
Like to optimise your route, and want a device that learns that and gives you better directions over the long term? Magellan maestro.
Live in a metro area and need to commute? Buy a dash express but never use the routing feature, as their routing will suck until at least a year from now.
If you're a power user, you'll probably end up with two on your dash. I have a magellan for the routing and the map interface, and a dash express for the traffic. Between the two I have pretty good coverage of what I want. ;)
Zach on May 5, 2008 10:43 AMI've used the TomTom and Garmin Nuvi and like them both.
The TomTom gets the nod today thanks to its online community-based map update feature (Map Share) and the ability to easily add roadblocks or fix mistakes. Jeff - did you know this existed and how could you choose agains it?
Garmin needs to catch up in these areas, while TomTom could improve its UI a little bit (although I admit I haven't used the new 900 series - just the ONE).
I used to bike around the UK a *lot* and I'm not afraid of paper maps - so I too was late to the GPS party.
Bought a TomTom GO 910 last year. Wow!
Ecologically - yes, it's "another piece of kit". But this thing has paid for itself easily because of the fuel I've saved avoiding traffic jams and not driving around in circles.
And if you have a family, you owe it to them to get one. Sure, nothing's perfect, but it does reduce the arguments about where things are.
Some specifics on the TomTom -
- The UI is fine if a bit clunky
- The RF remote control is brilliant
- The "converged" features (iPod integration, pictures, sound) aren't really worth it unless you have a 3.5mm jack in the car for sound input
- Don't bother with a FM transmitter mount, getting a clear channel is impossible
- The GO 910 is Linux based, so (for me at least) it's steady as a rock (cue Godwin's Law about platform wars....)
-- J
Jeremy on May 5, 2008 11:38 AMThe point in having all those cool gadgets is that you can look cool while still beign a geek, but isn't the point lost since you do not leave your house (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000970.html)?
Anyway, are GPS devices good outside the NA/Europe/Japan niche?
Hoffmann on May 5, 2008 12:03 PMUsed to have a tomtom, as far as finding out where it was, hard to fault, point to point navigation? again pretty good.
however I bought it for the traffic infomation and the ability to route round trouble on a somewhat long routine drive.
the service where it connects via my phone was ok(ish) but could get expensive with data charges, so I got the antenna to allow it to pick up over the air signals.
which basically didn't work, well it did in one location, the rest of the time it lacked a signal.
oh and the device had a tendancy to crash a few times a week, ok easy enough to reset with a paperclip but not while driving.
tech support didn't help much either, I was told the traffic info would be useless in 'the middle of nowhere', to which I did try to explain the M1 in the UK isn't the middle of nowhere.
as for thr crashes apparently I just had to put up with them since it was a 'pocket pc based device'.
i took it back, argued a bit and got a refund.
I'd have another if:
1, there was a way to set a given road, at a given time of day has an average speed of 'x', thus *I* can program in every day trouble spots to avoid.
2, the traffic warning system actually works out of the box.
3, its somewhat more stable
nice tech, give it a few years and it will be very good, from the looks of this arrticle its getting there
claire rand on May 5, 2008 12:23 PMYou are correct - these GPS devices have very mature, easy to use software. I got one for my wife recently, for its intended use, but I should show it to my software developers, too.
Andy on May 5, 2008 12:31 PMYou know the one side of me says, "Cool, something new and neat and shiny that makes my life easier!" The other side says, "Well, yet another piece of stuff that:
1. Adds to my already giant mound of stuff.
2. Fuels the already overly-materialistic nature of the U.S.
3. Makes me even more lazy than I already am.
4. Is a pricey substitute for a map and proper planning.
It's just sometimes I'm honestly kind of sickened that everything has to be new, and bright, and cutting edge and awesome. Sometimes I think progress can actually be a naughty word. Maybe it's just me.
1. On Convergence
I agree that Garmin's "convergence" functions are about as unobtrusive as they can be, although I've fat-thumbed my way into the labyrinthine MP3 playing module a couple times already, so it's not something you really only see when you are looking for it. The main problem is the button right on the main screen that pushes you into that particular ghetto if you touch it while pointing at something else on the screen to the numbnut in the back seat.
Personally, I can not imagine using the MP3 player on the Garmin, ever. The device is barely adequate for the speaking voice. It sounds like a 1973 mono cassette player with a blown out speaker for anything more demanding.
I bought the model I bought in the hopes of using it as a bluetooth speaker as well. Problem is, this is a damned expensive device, and so is always hidden away until we need it. I see no reason to pop it out and mess with the suction mount every time we hop in the car. This also means, of course, that I can't rely on it being there as a bluetooth speaker, which I *do* need available 100% of the time. Instead, I bought a separate BT speaker for $50, which does not attract window-breakage.
2. On the need for such things
Yeah, you just won't understand until you use it. Sorry, folks. Nothing beats perfect foresight and planning, except not needing to worry about it. Personally, I don't rely on our Garmin, but I know it's there when I need it, and will get me to where I need to be with about 95% efficiency. That having been said, a little foresight and practice on a route gets us much closer to 100% efficiency, so the only use on my main route is as a traffic predictor and re-router.
3. On misinformation
* You do not need a subscription to any satellite service of any sort for GPS to work.
* Maps are updated every once in a while by Garmin and can be bought and downloaded when they are. If you don't buy the updates, your old maps continue working just as well as always. This is clearly inferior to the crowd-sourced map updates employed by others. Frankly, Garmin's post-sale support policy is "nickel-and-dime customers to death" instead of "foster long-term customer relationships".
* These are not illegal in California.
* Finding restaurants and such is a tricky business. Once we looked up Jamba Juice and were told that the nearest one was 15 miles away; truth of the matter was that there were three such stores we knew about in the area. Another time we asked for nearby restaurants and ended up getting directed to a regional distributor for a chain instead of a restaurant. It's a 50% accuracy function; you gain a lot by just stopping at the side of the road and looking in the phone book instead. It accuracy presumably varies by area. Garmin's knowledge of Northern CA, however, sucks.
I remember how two years ago it was impossible to get a GPS navigator for your car in Argentina. Now it's way more common, but they're still expensive over here: only the high class people can own them. And about Tivo, you wouldn't want to believe we don't even have that over here: we got a similar thing for DirecTV suscriptors, but it looks it wasn't that successful. And no HDTV channels also... we are so backwards...
Alex on May 5, 2008 1:57 PMI'm quite shocked with the amount of bad data provided by commercial mapping providers. Which is why I've joined the OpenStreetMap project.
Shaun McDonald on May 6, 2008 3:52 AMSo..when are you going to start getting some code related posts out? I liked the gadget related posts, but I thought this blog was about coding.
Thanks!
Jean on May 6, 2008 3:55 AMAhh man! Not more ruddy GPS rhetoric. We're losing more and more of our mental abilities by letting machines do all the thinking for us. When going somewhere, I jot down some rough guidelines (road names etc) using gmaps. I then jump in the car (which has a paper based map -just in case) and go for it.
So far, I haven't ever gotten lost beyond comprehension and I also get some sense of achievement when I get there.
Sod GPS, we should just make cars that automatically chauffeur you there, based on GPS and some bumper sensors. Hey. may as well remove all the fun from driving, it's safer!
bloop on May 6, 2008 4:46 AMOn a trip from San Diego to Claremont CA, the Nuvi wanted me to drive the last 20 miles on surface streets. On a trip back to San Diego, it wanted me to go through a gated neighborhood to get to the office, after taking me past the closest offramp.
HostV on May 6, 2008 5:37 AMI work and live in New York City, so we don't need a car. But when we rent a car, I have to get a GPS. I love it so much, I'm thinking of buying a unit; I figure it will pay itself off after 20 car rentals.
monsur on May 6, 2008 7:36 AMI use Verizon Wireless's Navigator software on my cell phone. Works great, goes with me wherever I go. I can't see any reason to upgrade to a full GPS unit..
loctastic on May 6, 2008 9:07 AMI used to have a Garmin C550 (I believe that was the model number)... until someone realized they could just smash the window on my car and take it. Even though there is a serial number on the device, Garmin wouldn't do anything to deactivate it or to track it down, so if you steal one, it's as good as a brand new one. If they were actually useless if stolen, I have to think that would reduce theft and wouldn't be that hard to impliment, but I guess that's too much to ask and they'll get my money when I buy another. The broken window went under my car insurance and the Garmin under my home owner's insurance, and neither amounted to more than their respective deductables so I was out the price of both.
I've been thinking about a Nuvo to replace it though, since they're smaller and I could probably fabricate some kind of mount near the radio so that it wouldn't be so obvious that i had the thing in my car.
Kris on May 6, 2008 9:54 AMHmm, I'll have to check out this Nuvi (even though I have no interest in Car GPS units). I have a pair of Garmin Rinos (hand-helds with two-way radio) for hiking and ghost town hunting. They are the biggest pieces of electronic CRAP I have ever owned, in terms of their usability. THE WORST USER INTERFACE EVER! For the price, I expect something like that to run itself.
insan_art on May 6, 2008 11:53 AMI have a Nuvi. I love it. I understand people's concern about the theft issue, and the breakage issue.
What I did was buy a hard drive case from a local computer store (about $7.00). When I park my vehicle, I stash the Garmin in the hard drive case, out of sight. So far so good. The only thing visible on my dashboard is the little plastic disc.
Geoff Lilley on May 6, 2008 12:06 PMWhen going somewhere, I jot down some rough guidelines (road names etc) using gmaps.
Just think, in 20 years you're going to be complaining about those damn whippersnappers forsaking the good ol' method of dashboard GPS devices for GPS chips directly integrated into their brainstem. Get off my holographic lawn, I say!
americans. in germany you would just by a cellphone which integrated gps...
offler on May 7, 2008 5:41 AMAnyone use their Nuvi's placed lower in your vehicle (not on the dash), either in a cup holder or some kind of mount near the radio? I'm interested in how it performs when placed as such.
Kris on May 7, 2008 7:30 AMI've used mine mounted on the center console, below the radio, with no problems. In fact the only time I've ever lost the satellite signal is in the tunnels on the PA turnpike (some of which are over a mile long). I can usually even get a signal in my house.
Also, Garmin has a whole line of motorcycle GPS units on their web site.
Frank on May 7, 2008 10:00 AMI had a Garmin C350 which broke, and I replaced with a Nuvi. My thoughts:
1. To those who say, "Hey, I can find my way with a paper map", either a traditional paper map or printed from Streets Trips or whatever: I've had a few times I've tried to read a map while driving. That is extremely difficult and dangerous. Even if you write down directions first, you have to keep referring back to them as you drive. And, especially if I got directions from someone else but to a lesser extent if I wrote them down myself, I often find myself asking, "Did I pass that street?" "Was it back there or is it still ahead?" etc.
With a GPS, not only does it tell you when you reach the turn, but if you miss it, the GPS automatically figures out a new route. How many times have you made cumbersome circle around re-routes to get back to where you missed a turn?
2. My older GPS was more expensive and would read street names; my new one doesn't. I found it makes almost no difference. Most of the time I can't find the street sign in time to react to it anyway. The one place it really did help was interstate exits. When there are many exits in a short space, that often helped save confusion. You can pretty much rely on seeing exit signs.
3. My old GPS did have errors on its maps. Like, once it tole me to turn right onto highway whatever-it-was. I looked around increasingly frantically, but there was no intersection in sight. Then my son said, "It's up there, dad!" Sure enough, we were in a valley, about 100 feet above us was a bridge that was surely the road we were supposed to take. But, uh, how exactly was I supposed to climb up the supports while carrying my car?
4. The "finding restaurants" feature is great! Now wherever I'm travelling, I can decide what kind of food I want, and the GPS will tell me the next place along our current route to get it. RE using reviews and personal recommendations to find restaurants: If you're looking for a fine dining experience, this is probably true. But when I'm travelling, I'm quite content to say, "Find me the next steak house" and take what I get. Maybe when you're on the road and want to grab a quick bite for lunch, you stop at a local bookstore and get a tour book with reviews of local restaurants, then stop random strangers on the street and ask them to confirm the information. I can't imagine going to that much trouble.
5. I didn't buy one with a built-in MP3 player or any of that stuff because it seemed pretty superfluous. But, I don't know how they implement this, but I can think of a potential advantage: The unit could turn off the music when it announces the next turn. One problem I have with my GPS is that if the radio is on -- and especially if my daughter turned the radio on because that means it is loud enough to make my head vibrate -- it can be hard to hear the GPS directions. A feature to stop the music, make the announcement, and then restart the music would make us both happy.
6. My biggest complaint: The suction cup mount just plain doesn't work. It constantly falls off. There's something intellectually amusing about the fact that they've got all this complex satellite reception stuff, mapping, touch screens, and complex software working ... but they can't make a suction cup that actually sticks to the window. I finally bought an adhesive mount that seems secure, but I've only had it for a few weeks. The "friction pillow" seems like a good idea, I'd like to try one of those.
PS. My Nuvi has a "unit conversion" feature, so I can convert miles to kilometers and so forth. Among the choices is to convert between Farenheit, Celsius, and Kelvin temperatures. Uh, when was the last time you were driving to your grandmother's house, saw a sign at a bank with the time and temperature, and said to yourself, Hey, what would that temperature be in Kelvin?
How come they don't include converting dates to Julian days or Mayan calendar? Seems a pretty serious omission to me. And there's nothing to convert light-years to cubits, either.
jay on May 9, 2008 2:47 AMI originally thought about a portable GPS, but I am a huge stickler for either OEM-style integration or proper installation. AND I hate convergence, so having a GPS that tells me the time in 9 timezones and can tell me the proper amount to tip in bangladesh stuck on the dashboard leaves me just as unsatisfied as those little suction-cup compass globes my grandparents had on THEIR dash when I was a kid.
Enter the vehicle-mounted laptop with bluetooth GPS, broadband card, and bluetooth printer.
My laptop runs streets and trips like Jeff's previous method, using a stealth-mounted bluetooth GPS [theft isnt an issue when no one knows it's there in the first place.]
Plus my Dell ATG D630 has an illuminated REAL keyboard, so when I need email or type an address in, I dont have to do the T9 tapdance on my phone.
This may be overkill for your grandparents, but for someone who doesnt want to sacrifice features at all, while keeping multiple-device reliance to a minimum, this is the only way to go.
Did I mention I can also read this blog in my truck while waiting for the drawbridge to close on my way home? How's the browser on the NUVI...oh right. :-)
Bill on May 9, 2008 8:01 AMThe windshield mounts are illegal in California. Dashboard mounts are fine.
And if you need a mount that's (in my opinion) a good deal better than the vendor-supplied ones, check out http://www.mountguys.com/
I replaced my stock Garmin dashmount with theirs. My husband did the same with his Magellan mount.
We're both fairly experienced navigators, and like the feel of discovery, but when we need to be in a certain place without time-consuming side trips, these GPS devices are better than the Thomas Map Guides we both (still) carry in our cars as backup.
The next step in usability will be to automatically integrate traffic data into the routestream and update navigation on-the-fly. I know you can already do this with the high-end devices (and dedicated traffic data subscriptions), but in my mind, this belongs in the unit out-of-the-box.
Meredith Manley on May 10, 2008 10:21 AMthe only thing I really didn't get: is there any practical use of this big gps-device if I don't own a car?
I use gps, in my gps-enabled Nokia Navigator, with Google Maps, and it works nicely. What is better in this Nuvi?
Ihar on May 11, 2008 11:51 AMI recently bought a Nvi 760, and love it, but have one major usability criticism:
It reads out the street names using the same language rules as the instructions.
I live in Sweden but my native language is English - I would prefer instructions in English, but the street names are then unrecognizable, so I have to set it to Swedish, which is now my second language.
But when I took the unit to Spain to use in a rented car, neither 'Ingrid' nor 'Emily' could manage the street names properly. I don't speak Spanish, but I do have a rough idea how it should sound, and their gallant attempts were way off...
I would have preferred the text-to-speech rules to be linked to the current location, rather than the instruction language.
But it was great on the winding mountain roads, being able to 'look ahead' to see just how much of a bend I was going round...
DavidR on May 12, 2008 9:37 AMHaha the baby is so cute. programming can really be a hard job if your not good at it. professionals usually does this with ease, cause for them programming is not just a job its a passion.
web designer on May 14, 2008 5:28 AMI have to disagree with much of your post....I find the Nuvi UI HORRENDOUS!!!!! Entering a new address, I have to TYPE in the city??? For the 20th time today?? How about a dropdown list, or a default??
Way points don't seem to work (how do you indicate you have reached it vs mistakenly driven by??) Maybe its me, but I actually tried to read the manual and figure it out before giving up.
I can't remember so many of the other things, I've basically stopped using it except for big trips because I get so agitated using it....being a software developer, I can't help notice the pathetic implementation whenever I try to do any task on it, it seems like it was done by a (poor) first year student or something.
Trevor on May 28, 2008 12:30 PMLots of opinions here, so I'll add my own...
Prior to adulthood, I was the navigator for family trips, equipped only with the destination and my trusty RMcN road atlas. Yes, I was a pre-teen roadgeek.
I've used DeLorme's Street Atlas product for years and printed out the directions and maps for trips.
In late '05 I picked up the Street Atlas software that came with the USB GPS antenna for the laptop. While it worked well enough, the laptop had to reside somewhere, and that wound up being my wife's lap. No convenient or simple was to securely mount the laptop, it took up space, and was inconveniently useful.
In late '06 I picked up a refurbished Garmin StreetPilot i3 for $99. I figured if anything, it was a cool toy to play with. About the size of a tennis ball with a tiny 1.75" LCD screen. No touchscreen, but a scroll/push wheel. It works well, was easy to use despite the lack of a screen, and didn't take up much space. Maps weren't perfect, but none of them are. I added a 2Gb microSD card to it and was able to put the entire North American map set on it - a big plus over the tiny 128Mb card it came with that only held 2-3 states at a time.
In '08 I picked up a Garmin nuvi 200 for the wife - $130 on sale. "Alice" works well and the wife enjoyed having it on her last trip - until she realized that "Alice" didn't know about the construction and road closures in St. Louis at the time. (RULE #1: GPS is great, but a $5 road atlas is still worth every penny.)
Bought the new 2009 City Navigator North America NT Update - $50 on sale. Installed it and updated the maps on the i3 (despite the fact it's not listed on the compatibility chart - the fact I have the 2Gb SD card makes it compatible.) You can't update more than one Garmin device, though. What I did find was that when I went to the myGarmin support site, I was eligible for a FREE '09 map update to the nuvi 200. I couldn't just use the code with my existing installed 09 update - I actually had to download the 2Gb code update, install it, enter the code, and then I could update my nuvi 200. Which leads to another issue - the lack of space.
The 2009 map set takes more space than the older maps - and it won't fit on a 'default' nuvi 200. You must connect the nuvi 200 to your PC - it shows up as a flash drive - and REMOVE unneeded files to gain enough space to hold the lower 48 state maps. I removed all the voices but American English, and all the foreign text files, along with the JPEG files. After updating the lower 48 state maps, there is only 5Mb free on the nuvi 200's 1Gb of flash memory. While I can insert up to a 2Gb SD card in the nuvi 200, I apparently cannot install maps to it. What concerns me is that, with each map update being larger, if I can only install to the built-in flash memory, I'll have to start removing state maps in the future. That's a flaw in my eyes - there's no way I'm going to fill up a 2Gb SD card with POIs, so why not let me put more maps there?
Speaking of POI's - it's insanely simple to add them. A simple CSV file with information can be created - or one can download pre-created files from sites like POI Factory. Folks spend time creating specific POI files (all Wal-Marts and Sams Club locations, all US Interstate rest areas, all Flying J truckstops, all Chicago hot dog stands, etc) and make them available to all. Use Garmin's POI Loader software to install them to an SD card and they can be added to the nuvi's default POI lists. That came in handy - I preloaded the wife's destinations for her trip, and all she had to do was choose them from Favorites - no typing or anything.
Also recently found info on how to create your own voice files and to download new vehicle icons (currently, the Black Pearl pirate ship is the wife's icon - more exciting than a minivan icon!)
I also chose the nuvi 200 for it's simplicity - I don't need a picture viewer or MP3 player - I need a GPS trip navigator.
On the subject of 'widescreen' GPS units - I'd rather have a 'tall' screen, so I can see more of what's ahead of me.
And I just picked up the Garmin friction dash mount for $23. One reason is that the suction cup mount is weak, the other is that theives are not only attracted to the empty suction mount you might leave behind (thus announcing that you have a GPS and it's probably in the car), but they now scan the glass and look for the tell-tale suction cup CIRCLE that gets left behind when you remove it. It's similar to the other beanbag mounts but doesn't use the suction cup at all - has it's own "ball" mount that snaps into place. The entire mount and GPS then comes off the dash and leaves no trace behind.
While I never thought that I would NEED a GPS - it's fun to play with and is at it's most useful when I have to deviate from my destination - it's there to put me back on track when I need it.
-jim
Jim Choate on May 30, 2008 9:06 AMSounds like me just a few months back. I found the Garmin StreetPilot C550 for around $170 refurbished (and though it's bulkier, it has all the features of the much more expensive nuvi 360), and I've been loving it ever since. The timing on turn prompts and the reading of street names are both fantastic. And it is pretty accurate on estimated time of arrival. I've told people since that it's my favorite toy. It really is. More so than the giant TV or anything else I've bought in the past several years.
Jason Beck on February 6, 2010 10:25 PMI only wonder if the device would be less pricey if it DIDN'T have all those other features.
Even if it's not bloated, it may be causing people to pay for things they don't need.
I just bought a 260W in part due to your post Jeff but I've found it lacking compared to the TomTom One it replaced.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of alternative routes:
Until Garmin offers this on all models I'd suggest going with TomTom.
Jason Sares on February 6, 2010 10:25 PMThe comments to this entry are closed.
| Content (c) 2012 Jeff Atwood. Logo image used with permission of the author. (c) 1993 Steven C. McConnell. All Rights Reserved. |
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