Hi Anvar,

I'm well aware of the innovation that came out of other cultures.

My point was that the achievements of western culture, from ancient Greece to ancient Rome, from North America to Russia, are far above everyone else.

China unfortunately kept a lot of its innovation from the outside world.

Chinese agricultural practices are what affected Europe the most.

Also, the concept for zero is from China, not India. The Chinese used a dash to represent zero.

The latter intellectual greatness of Egypt was Greek, and therefore western. Who was Alexandria named after?

Have a great day.

Excellent - the comments have turned into a gay rights debate...

I felt I had to comment on the veritably insane statement below:

GEX: I find that straight sex is gross and disgusting.

Less competition for us normal guys I suppose.

I did follow up with a relevant post.

Jin,

Yup, my source is The Genius of China (based on Needham's work), which is also listed in your link.

Perhaps if China hadn't been so introverted we might have been far more advanced today =)

Hi Anvar,

No offense taken =)

Ancient Greece is considered the beginning of western civ. That spread to Rome and then Christendom spread it to the rest of Europe, and then to the entire world. As far as I know, every poster here accepts that his post was written in 2008 as designated by western culture, whatever the poster's culture is.

Hi protected static,

What lack of self-awareness?

I ask again, by what standard am I closed minded?

What absolute standard are you holding me accountable to?

Christianity?

Islam?

Humanism?

Your own made up values?

What absolute is this standard based on and what is the evidence for this standard that I should adhere to it?

On the other hand what does it matter if I'm closed minded?

Do I have to be open to everything?

Why do I have to be open minded toward homosexuality?

What standard do you adhere to and are holding me accountable to when you say that the statement straight sex is gross and disgusting is a reasonable counterpoint to what an earlier poster wrote?

Though homosexuality throughout history has been much more widespread than most people realize, the vast majority of people have a visceral and natural gag reflex when it comes to homosexuality; the lifestyle and the act. That a man can have romantic or lustful feelings towards another man is vomitous and most of the world would concur.

Bigots that they are, this is a natural and automatic gag reflex for the vast majority of people, if not blunted through constant exposure and indoctrination.

A trite case in point would be a quite liberal company (albeit small, around 80 people) I worked for in a very liberal Canadian city. A number of my co-workers were homosexuals and I didn't mind them in the least and I still like them. I developed a reasonably close relationship with one, a PhD. This company has a lot of recent female liberal arts (no pun intended) grads from a major, very liberal university. One day at lunch I queer lisped and the girls were disgusted. Not by my bigotry but by how realistic I did it. After a little talk it turned out that they were disgusted by homosexuals (surprised??????) and only expressed a reflexive tolerance. I told them that is dishonest. My way is to ignore a person's personal life if I disagree with it. I will not pretend to accept it. The three or four gay friends I've had understood my position and personal life was never brought up. I don't talk to people about my very active sex life with my wife.

While my family was definitely not pro-gay we did have a homosexual couple over for Christmas once. A great couple. I would not tolerate this with my children but these were friends. Personal intimate preference was not brought up, just like with anyone else. Intimate matters stayed private. Perhaps if most people kept intimate matters private tolerance would not be a problem.

Don't ask, don't tell.

While I do have views on the morality of homosexuality based on an absolute standard, morality in this case is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that my disgust of homosexuality and its practice is natural and visceral (as attested to by the majority of people in the world) and therefore my reaction to the statement straight sex is gross and disgusting is not idiotic but natural.

That being said, I have total disdain for how Turing was treated. His suicide is very sad.

protected static,

So I'm guilty of gambit?

That's all it is, a gambit?

That is stupid.

Tell me, what do you think of the practice of bestiality?

Better a bigot than a faggot.

And I suggest you look up the definition of bigot before throwing it around ignorantly. It can easily be applied to you for being intolerant of my views.

Not that I'm too concerned about being called a bigot.

Evidence for the gag reflex? Move out of the Castro district and hang out with regular people.

You can think whatever you like. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority out there are viscerally disgusted by the practice of homosexuality, as has been for millenia all over the world. Religious beliefs against homosexuality didn't come out of a vacuum.

So what do you think of the practice of bestiality?

Explosive Amnesia,

What do you think of the practice of bestiality?

Perhaps it is you that is conditioned? Did that occur to you?

That animals exhibit homosexual like behaviour does not make the practice natural.

The first and foremost unnatural aspect of homosexuality is the lustful desire for a person of the same sex.

Animals have no desire for the other party in the act, but use the other to stimulate themselves. Be it another animal, a sofa or your leg.

And what about mental responses by straights and gays to non-sexual thoughts and emotions? The brain adjusts to a person's tendencies. Studies ought to be done on prisoners locked away for long periods of time engaged in homosexual acts who otherwise would be disgusted by the practice. Not everyone is born a homosexual. Just like people aren't born attracted to bestiality.

They should have added male pedophiles interested in boys and male pedophiles interested in girls to the study. I wonder what the results would be like. Could there be a result that would exonerate their deviant desires?

I didn't know anything about homosexuality as a kid. Along with every other boy I would have been disgusted if a boy expressed romantic feelings for another boy. I was shocked that such a condition existed. This was something that was never mentioned at home so I didn't know about it.

Being aroused by my dentist's nice breasts when I was five years old in an innocent little town was also not conditioning. Just nature.

I don't understand what you mean by In what other ways does humanity so thoroughly reject that which is unnatural?

As for Why are you on a computer, discussing things on the Internet if you have such a visceral dislike for human beings acting outside of nature? I suggest reading my posts before replying.

Finally, I should point out that a sexual response study of men who
are vehemently homophobic exposed to woman/woman, man/woman, and
man/man porn predominantly had a stronger erectile
response to the man/man porn.
Just sayin. Most people just don't react that strongly to
things that don't interest them. Explains a lot of the disgraced
family values politicians and religious leaders, actually.

Perhaps they should come out of the closet.

I watched part of that gay cowboy movie and actually felt sick to the stomach as the tent scene started. I immediately fast forwarded and in a couple of minutes a similar scene appeared upon which I had to quickly turn it off as I felt physically sick to my stomach. No exaggeration. I should have read the reviews. I wanted to see what the fuss was about but was definitely not expecting gay porn.

And you know what, perhaps if I watched it many times I'd grow to like it and perhaps would become a queer.

It's happened before to others.

Joking about homosexuals has definitely worn my disgust. I best stop joking about it before I start finding it acceptable. The human mind can rationalize anything.

Anal sex is disgusting with whomever it is done. Exit only. One way. No entrance. Stop and don't proceed.

So tell me Chris, do you eschew that disgusting, unnatural
oral sex? Or are you a freaking hypocrite? Or is that just too
personal for you to allow the community to discuss
and make decisions about what you do in private?

Learn some logic skills. That some idiotic law interfered with private lives and deemed a practice unnatural does not make it so, so don't apply it to me.

Oral sex is mentioned approvingly in the Bible, in the Song of Solomon. Between a husband and wife, where the act of consummation, the first act of sex, is the act of marriage in the eyes of God, and fornication, sex without permanent commitment, is an abomination.

I quite enjoy muff diving my wife and the Bible approves.

Anvar, WHAT are you talking about???

protected static, I've said what I had to say. Have a great day.

For those open minded enough to even consider taking 28 minutes of their life to listen to this, here's a sermon by John McArthur, probably the greatest preacher in the world.

Listen to him recount meeting a homosexual dying of AIDS, who fortunately didn't die a homosexual.

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Grace_to_You/archives.asp?bcd=2008-7-7

Of course, most people are too set in their ways to even consider the above for a moment, and yet demand Christians to adhere to their values.

Though I don't know about McArthur's claim that the average homosexual has around 500 partners in his life... perhaps that's true in the Castro district...

(JA Where is my comment from five minutes back? Was that censorship in action? My comment was relevant to the post and the resulting comments... perhaps you're intolerant of my views.)

Never mind. Next time I'll refresh the page.

I hate liars, Chris.

Perhaps you're dense.

I've said what I had to say but linked to someone else who has something better to say. I wasn't offering any more commentary but that is apparently lost on your little brain.