The World's Largest MMORPG: You're Playing it Right Now

March 15, 2009

I was struck by the conclusion of Andy Oram's thoughtful piece on the next generation of online forums.

People who want to learn more about computer technology and solve problems they encounter on their systems currently have a wealth of forums to turn to: mailing lists and newsgroups, official and unofficial documentation (which may be distributed on the Web, on their systems, or in printed form) and the more collaborative media of IRC channels, wikis, and virtual worlds.

Why tamper with this set of resources? Because they are not as easy to find or to use as they should be. Each medium was invented for purposes other than the specific task of educating computer users, and have never been tailored to the tasks of generating and searching for information about computer systems. If relevant material was served through more specialized and helpful tools, people might create better information and it might be used more.

[..]

Done well, this system would make it fun and rewarding to contribute information to user communities.

The key word here is "fun".

When you interact with other people online ..

  • sending an email to a mailing list
  • posting on a discussion forum
  • chatting on IRC
  • revising a Wiki entry
  • entering a blog comment

.. like it or not, you're participating in the world's largest MMORPG. Lurking is always free. Those that choose to go beyond lurking, to add some tiny bit of content to the web, do it because they find it enjoyable. On some level, they're having fun. If you want to a cultivate a community of participants instead of passive, zombie-like TV viewers who contribute nothing, you should be designing to maximize this fun. As Andy discovered, not designing game-like aspects into community websites is the bigger long term mistake.

In the fantastic presentation Mixing Games and Applications, Dan C. explores the example of Mario Brothers, which we know as a game. But what if it was a traditional desktop application: Rescue Princess Enterprise 2008?

Rescue the Princess as a desktop app

Or a web 2.0 website, Princesszr?

Rescue the Princess as a web 2.0 website

How easy are the above two applications to learn? To use? The desktop application has a steep learning curve, but offers lots of power and flexibility. The web 2.0 version has almost no learning curve, but it only does one simple (and boring) thing.

Now consider it as a game.

rescue the princess, as Super Mario Brothers

The player is handed a new tool called Mario the first time they see this screen. They don't know how to use him. The screen gives them a playground where they can try different things:

  • Blocks that reward jumping by giving out coins.
  • Goomba that rewards successfully learning how to attack. It also teaches the players to avoid Goombas on pain of death.
  • Blocks that teach the player how to collect powerups.
There are a couple interesting points to note:

  1. The awarding of a new tool is almost always paired with a simple level that lets the player learn the tool in a somewhat safe environment.
  2. The player cannot pass this section without mastering at least one critical skill, in this case moving and jumping. This sort of gating ensures that the designer can rely upon the user having the jumping skill available at later points in the game.
This is different than most apps. In many apps, you sort through the options and turn on a new feature. There is nothing that is the equivalent of a 'level' or learning context to help you build skills associated with the tool.

Recasting the experience as a game means it can be simultaneously complex and easily learnable. That's something we couldn't accomplish through traditional applications, which are designed to be usable but not necessarily fun. They've failed to design for fun. And in an era of ubiquitious web community , that's a big mistake.

Let's not trivialize this. Just because your application is fun doesn't mean you've turned it into a game. You've adopted game mechanics in order to build community:

I see game mechanics working well on sites like YouTube, Yelp, Twitter, and Flickr. These sites have added game mechanics like points, leaderboards, level-ups, social exchanges, and customization to a strong core experience. In particular, YouTube has done a brilliant job of making the overall experience feel game-like, without turning the site into a traditional game.

Why is this happening in so many places? I think game design principles have become common knowledge for young Web designers. Many of the people who are designing and building these sites grew up playing games, and are familiar with game design principles - even if they're not "officially" game designers themselves. It's a testament to how pervasive and mainstream gaming has become.

I recommend paging through Amy's presentations for a more detailed explanation with lots of great examples:

  1. Putting the Fun in Functional
  2. Power to the Players

If you're looking for a lower-level design compendium of game mechanics, suitable for implementation on your own site, check out the Yahoo Developer Network social design patterns library:

Not every activity can be turned into a game. And perhaps not every activity should be a game.

But when it comes to community websites -- sites that get better for everyone the more users actively participate -- these are already so close to being de-facto games that it'd be downright negligent to ignore this aspect of the design. You should shape and define your community by explicitly acknowledging and embracing the game-like aspects you want to encourage, rather than pretending they don't exist.

After all, the first step in breaking our addiction to the world's largest MMORPG is to admit that we have a problem.

Posted by Jeff Atwood
61 Comments

I wish this blog had nested comments.

3

Mike on March 16, 2009 2:56 AM

I think of all the posts I've read on coding horror, this has had the most impact on me in terms of thinking about application design (forgive me that I can't give you full credit though-- Andy Osram's paper has had a profound impact too).

I mean it-- it has really got me changing some elements of the software I'm working on.
A few of the comments on your post are welcome as well, in particular the notion that there is a trade-off between time spent accomplishing an objective, and the sense of fun in doing it. As with much else, clearly it's about finding a balance.

I'm sure it's no coincidence that you mention all this in light of the badges mechanic present in stack overflow. I think features like that are what keep people coming back. I think the xbox 360 owes much of its success to the achievements system. I almost wonder if it would be even more interesting if on stack overflow all the possible badges were unknown, that rather than working towards them, they were just accidentally discovered.. but i digress.

Someone also mentioned wikipedia, but I have to disagree with that comment to some extent. Personally I don't feel that contributing to wikipedia (along with the scores of forums and mailing lists I trawl through) is a good use of my time. There is almost something of a clique there, and this coupled with what I consider to be a huge learning curve presents an intimidating barrier of entry to me, let alone a casual web surfer.

Of course, some mechanics (as unfortunately, with the themes of several of your articles lately) are more appropriate to web-based software than desktop applications, but nevertheless, this is really good food for thought....

Jack James on March 16, 2009 3:05 AM

Sometimes i'm not sure why Jeff blogs, maybe he just does it for the sake of blogging...

Phill on March 16, 2009 3:43 AM

Sometimes when I read your words Jeff I wish I had a sniper rifle.

Agree, for playing Battlefield 2 or CounterStrike, which are fun!

That's the spirit! -- Roy Batty

Jeff Atwood on March 16, 2009 4:54 AM

I wish Princesszr was available in the 80s. It would have saved me a hell of a lot of time.

I was hoping the Rescue Princess button would actually do something

Fixed!

Jeff Atwood on March 16, 2009 5:00 AM

Time has shown that pandering to the LCD of humanity does not increase returns. Instead your normalize the mean down creating a slow sink to the bottom.

Sure. It's possible to get it wrong, but there are lots of games which happen to be educational and damn good games (e.g., fun) at the same time.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000395.html

Jeff Atwood on March 16, 2009 5:04 AM

I don't like the implication that sites need to interact with visitors in order to be truly viable. Most sites I see have an unnecessary comments section that is often not moderated and occasionally has vile language in it, which means I'd hesitate to link my mom to such a page. How can you be proud of user-generated content, Jeff?

Read any YouTube comment, any digg discussion or Slashdot thread and tell me that user-generated content is the way forward. I read those and I see piss-poor grammar, emotion-driven responses and incoherent arguments filled with ad hominems, racial slurs, and the same tired memes spouted over and over.

Matt Green on March 16, 2009 5:20 AM

@Matt Green, YouTube comments are the most inane things on the Inter Tubes, and that is saying quite a lot. Arguably, YouTube comments are sufficient reason for alien beings to blow the Earth up into a trillion pieces. If you ever find yourself thinking *too* clearly, just read some YouTube comments and you will be all fixed!

Charles on March 16, 2009 5:57 AM

I like Mario.

Orange is two syllables??

Matt on March 16, 2009 7:58 AM

What rhymes with orange?

Stephen Hill on March 16, 2009 8:03 AM

You guys want to come over and play 'payroll' AP. I good new Quicken bracers and a Reconcile function that gets 700+ when used with an auto itemization potion. Who's in?

monoclemonkey on March 16, 2009 8:07 AM

The money that pops out of my traditional application has a tendency to make it fun regardless. :)

Practicality on March 16, 2009 8:17 AM

The link of Putting the Fun in Functional gives me 404 error

Mecki on March 16, 2009 8:17 AM

Jane McGonigal (http://blog.avantgame.com/) did an awesome presentation about this at Webstock '09. Implementing some of the ideas during the conference - the results of the kind of crowd-sourcing, micro-content, forecasting MMO are at http://lab.signtific.org/

Pierce on March 16, 2009 8:20 AM

--The link of Putting the Fun in Functional gives me 404 error

You should probably put the Functional in Functional first, Jeff. ;-)

wickethewok on March 16, 2009 8:20 AM

A better link for Putting the Fun in Functional would be:

http://www.shufflebrain.com/?p=260

Craig on March 16, 2009 9:00 AM

When are we going to have full-on PVP on Stackoverflow? My 74 Orc Nightbringer is itching for a fight.

James Devlin on March 16, 2009 9:05 AM

If you want to a cultivate a community of participants instead of passive, zombie-like TV viewers who contribute nothing, you should be designing to maximize this fun.

The same could be said of an office / workplace environment. To maximize the contribution of your employees, you need to make the environment fun and engaging -- otherwise you'll get zombie-like drones that contribute the bare minimum.

Skrud on March 16, 2009 9:12 AM

WTF is this blog coming to?

Kale Kold on March 16, 2009 9:16 AM

One major difference, though, between Rescue Princess Enterprise 2008 and Pricesszr on the one hand, and Mario on the other, is that to actually rescue the princess in Mario takes a long time. If all you need to do is rescue the princess, Princesszr is your best bet. If you need to be able to rescue her in a few ways, Rescue Princess Enterprise 2008 is your best bet. If you need to rescue her with incredible potential for irrelevant variation, and time is no concern, Mario is your best bet. They all have their place, depending where you are on the sliding scale of customized details/time.

Now what does this have to do with fun? Well, fun things tend to make you want to sink more time into them, but they also tend to require a certain amount of time as an investment; even in the realm of super-casual flash games, the best ones are ones that you feel you can keep playing for a while (in my opinion, anyway).

KIt on March 16, 2009 9:22 AM

I wish Princesszr was available in the 80s. It would have saved me a hell of a lot of time.

AndyL on March 16, 2009 9:30 AM

WTF is this blog coming to?
What do you mean coming? It is already there!

How easy are the above two applications to learn? To use? The desktop application has a steep learning curve, but offers lots of power and flexibility. The web 2.0 version has almost no learning curve, but it only does one simple (and boring) thing.

The web 2.0 version is the worst designed button according to HCI that I have ever come across. Lets see you need text on the button and extra text to explain WTF'in button is for. Yes I know this is not Jeffs image but still it is dumb.


But when it comes to community websites -- sites that get better for everyone the more users actively participate -- these are already so close to being de-facto games that it'd be downright negligent to ignore this aspect of the design.
I could not agree more! Sometimes when I read your words Jeff I wish I had a sniper rifle.

Anybody got a sniper rifle? on March 16, 2009 9:31 AM

Good one! ...I was hoping the Rescue Princess button would actually do something though, kind of like your nerd rage link. :)

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/nerd-rage.gif

--Robert

Robert on March 16, 2009 9:45 AM

Wasn't expecting any new post from you for at least a week... Shouldn't you be helping out managing that new process? Congratulations btw!

Martin on March 16, 2009 9:48 AM

What a coincidence! Many of your posts have me wishing for a comment ranking system ala StackOverflow et al.: you get enormous amounts of comments, and by the time I read a post it's just not feasible for me to read all (or even most) comments. As you've said many times before, the comments are at least as valuable as the original post: I agree, but only a few comments add value (whether informative, funny, or thought-provoking). The rest are me-too's, repetitions, or rants about sniper rifles.
Can you help us out and let your readers rank comments? It'll add the above mentioned game quality to it, and let you practice what you preach.

Alex on March 16, 2009 9:50 AM

The world largest MMORPG: your life ;)

Zoom on March 16, 2009 9:54 AM

You'll end up with a desktop with loads of connected 3D boxes on it with kids saying:

I know this, it's unix!

Skizz

Skizz on March 16, 2009 10:16 AM

@Martin: I suspect the current outsourcing of newborn care is allowing for blog updates. Once the cost/benefit of outsourcing becomes prohibitive, care will be brought inhouse and posting frequency will decrease.

Skizz

Skizz on March 16, 2009 10:20 AM

Can you help us out and let your readers rank comments? It'll add the above mentioned game quality to it, and let you practice what you preach.

Sorry, my comment here is indeed a comment that does not contribute to the original post in any way, but might I just remind that comment rating will usually turn into I agree - thumbs up, I disagree - thumbs down -type rating, which will backfire and defeat the original purpose...

door hinge on March 16, 2009 10:54 AM

Every time I pretend I am Leisure Suit Larry here in the office, I wind up with an HR reprimand...

Charles on March 16, 2009 11:05 AM

First, Jeff, thanks for referring to my article. More of that sort here:

http://www.praxagora.com/community_documentation/

The name gives a hint about my own evolution. I named that site a long time ago when I was just thinking about documentation. Doesn't sound like fun! Now I realize the game is more about interacting with people and educating them. Documentation is one part.

Learning as game playing (good, basic Donald Norman sorts of insights) is a good goal, but I don't believe all topics can reach that level of interactivity. There are graphical programming tools that might get us there.

For education online, I'm focusing now on the feeling that, when you contribute, you feel that people are listening, that your work is getting used, and that it continues to be relevant over time (by being updated). That adds up to feeling rewarded--and maybe like fun.

Andy Oram on March 16, 2009 11:07 AM

The same could be said of an office / workplace environment. To maximize the contribution of your employees, you need to make the environment fun and engaging -- otherwise you'll get zombie-like drones that contribute the bare minimum.

Only if you don't want to get any work done. (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/don_norman_on_design_and_emotion.html - about half way through)

Steve-O on March 16, 2009 11:18 AM

I'm glad you mentioned IRC! It seems to be a dying fad, like the days of BBS. But I still use it, and have many friends I can go to for technical help or information. It is still a good way to communicate, and it's still fun to me!

Kudos on the blog!

Slacker on March 16, 2009 11:45 AM

Worlds of Stackcraft?

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/warcraft_sequel_lets_gamers_play

fschwiet on March 16, 2009 12:01 PM

Re: Stephen Hill
Door Hinge rhymes with Orange.

Browser on March 16, 2009 12:19 PM

Google image labeler is an extreme example of this!

Hugo on March 16, 2009 12:19 PM

ìWhen you interact with other people online ... like it or not, you're participating in the world's largest MMORPG.î

I donít agree. The essence of any game is that you are pretending to do something other than what you are actually doing. For example, killing a dragon, rather than hitting a keyboard. If you are doing any of the activities mentioned, you are not pretending to do them, but really are doing them ñ thatís the difference between RP and RL.

Personally, I worry about the need to add game like elements to the real world, as it confuses the objective; am I answering a question because I think itís the correct answer and want to help, or am I trying to get as many points as possible.

Steve W on March 16, 2009 12:37 PM

This reminds me of the gentlemen who came up with the idea of CAPTCHAs which are actually pictures of scanned ancient texts and having people translate them.

I was just recently recommended your blog, and posts like this keep me coming back.

Ellis Benus on March 16, 2009 12:49 PM

Games are not only fun, but they are usually easy to learn. Easiness is funnier than debugging some bad code or trying to get things to work even though they are a mess.

Silvercode on March 16, 2009 12:50 PM

The online encyclopedia at http://everything2.com had all the game-like features, and started years before Wikipedia, yet which one caught on?

The problem is if you make a site too much like a game, people start gaming the system rather than enjoying the core value of the site. Which then sucks the fun away from the legitimate users.

Even Wikipedia is starting to fall victim to this. Fortunately it's possible to contribute to WP without participating in the game.

Tim on March 16, 2009 1:13 PM

This is phenom happened 15 years ago in education. Edutainment was born of a way to keep kids interested in school. While I will agree that interface is everything and making level one of a game a tutorial is a smart move I disagree that there are gains porting that into productivity. By using ploys to get students (in this case users) to interact the material itself is unintentionally compromised. Time has shown that pandering to the LCD of humanity does not increase returns. Instead your normalize the mean down creating a slow sink to the bottom.

Please keep this in mind if you're making enterprise grade software. You should expect that there is an enterprise grade human on the other end using the tool.

On the other hand, if you're making iFart 2.5, scanwiches.com, or a new social feed aggregater have at it as fun is the name of the game. If not, don't sell yourself and your users short.

Harold on March 16, 2009 1:30 PM

I'm reminded of the Algebra Geometry textbook my math profs were writing, A Mathematician in the House of Medici, which was itself a spoof of Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. I read that text, cover to cover. For enjoyment. I don't think I even attended half the classes (for completely separate reasons) and I still got an A+ :). That said, there was a normal distribution of grades at the end -- I take it some of my classmates didn't find such literature fun like I did.

Ens on March 16, 2009 1:59 PM

EVE ONLINE (eveonline.com)

WARNING... HIGHLY Addictive MMORG (spaceship game)

Matt Kukowski on March 17, 2009 4:41 AM

How can you be proud of user-generated content, Jeff?

Isn't your thoughtful comment proof that it works a lot of the time?

Jeff Atwood on March 17, 2009 5:01 AM

Isn't your thoughtful comment proof that it works a lot of the time?
Thank you, but I'd rather not turn the discussion into one that is primarily navel-gazing.

I just think the web has a lot of work to do to improve the signal to noise ratio. Perhaps that was actually the point I was really trying to make: that using these game elements is an excellent way to improve the quality of interactions. I'm still convinced there is a way to have a civilized discussion online with complete strangers, but we haven't gotten there yet. The only really viable way I can see is heavy-handed moderation. When I say heavy-handed, I mean don't allow users to post me too! replies. Don't allow straying wildly off-topic. Don't post threads just to chat in specialized forums. And for heaven's sake, don't ever let people talk about other forum people in a thread. (Meta-discussion considered harmful?)

Reputation systems tend to work well on sites where truth is mostly an objective matter (stackoverflow.com). On discussion sites, it becomes far more difficult due to group dynamics. Trying to discuss something people don't want to hear? Forget it, oftentimes. The niche nature of many sites is an overall boon, but it means that they are that much more resistant to conflicting information because many are so like-minded. If I post on Slashdot I have 50% chance of being modded either funny/troll or just insightful. I honestly never know which, and whenever I try for the one, I end up with the other.

I think ask.metafilter.com comes as close as I've found to mostly intelligent, focused, on-topic discussion. That is one place I could be fairly addicted to. I have yet to find a non-questions/answers site where I could discuss programming at large sans religion.

Matt Green on March 17, 2009 5:47 AM

Sorry, my comment here is indeed a comment that does not contribute to the original post in any way, but might I just remind that comment rating will usually turn into I agree - thumbs up, I disagree - thumbs down -type rating, which will backfire and defeat the original purpose...

Stack overflow failed, then?

Kenn Bracey on March 17, 2009 7:21 AM

I think the importance of interaction can plainly be seen by the phenomenal success of Facebook. The inclusion of it's Twitterlike feed puts it at a similar stage in its development to Windows 3 (the breakthrough to mass adoption and ubiquity).

It is rich irony that the people responsible for crafting the interaction are the least lightly to be able to understand its importance. A too rigid focus on the mechanics of communication is bound to ensure the loss of sight of it's essence ;0)

Word of mouth Mike on March 17, 2009 8:36 AM

I get it now, StackOverflow is trying to be an MMORPG. I thought it was trying to be a programming QA site. Please disregard http://sqlanywhere.blogspot.com/2009/03/broken-or-worse.html

Breck Carter on March 17, 2009 12:38 PM

I don't think fun is so important in fixing broken community tools.

Applications are used for entertainment, or to get a job done. When something is used for entertainment, the fun element is great (YouTube). However, it can be distracting for a task at hand, and make the tool less efficient.

If some tool bores you to death, it means it is not doing the job quickly enough, or not doing enough of it. Part of constructing fun is to create challenges for the player, have progressive disclosure, etc. Just imagine features that are only available for gurus... I think *developing* fun applications is more fun, which is why it appeals to some (just is making games is more fun than making database tools [for some]).

We could make many boring things more fun (driving, for instance: cool detours, ramps, big boss drivers, potholes...) that should in fact just be efficient.

ht

Herman Tulleken on March 17, 2009 1:46 PM

We use Trac for issue tracking and project management. Our group's efforts are focused by the Roadmap which shows upcoming (or overdue) milestones (earliest first) and individual Dashboards which show the tasks assigned (most urgent first). I've considered that this is kind of like a game of Tetris where you are always trying to clear rows: get the top milestone off the Roadmap or top ticket off your Dashboard.

Chris on March 18, 2009 5:56 AM

http://thenethernet.com/ lets you play games on any webpage. its not what Jeff is talking about, but its eerily similar!

Tony on March 18, 2009 8:49 AM

There are some benefits that games gives to the players. It enhances analytical skills in an entertaining way.

eq2 plat on March 25, 2009 2:55 AM

Have you seen xine/gxine's preferences window? It's modal and lets you select between 4 levels of difficulty that enable different options for you to tweak.

redondos on March 26, 2009 6:01 AM

This article was some of the inspiration for a new website we developed called 'the link wars'. the concept is that you have a blog/vote-up site similar to DIGG/REDDIT that you actually gain levels and power for picking good stories. You can gain and use items and gain bragging rights by getting to the top.

lostblues on June 30, 2009 10:13 AM

My company (Bunchball) has a platform (Nitro) that provides game mechanics (points, levels, leaderboards, virtual goods, challenges, trophies, real-time feedback, competitions, etc.) as a service, that can be integrated into any website or application. Our customers include Comcast, USA, WB, NBC, Hearst and others that are using game mechanics to drive user behavior and engagement on their sites. Check out the details (and lots of good articles about the space) at http://wiki.bunchball.com

Rajat Paharia on August 5, 2009 4:27 AM

Customization is a game mechanic? That's news to me. What did the original Super Mario Bros allow you to customize?

Aaron G on February 6, 2010 11:13 PM

@ Matt comment #1
Yes, orange is two syllables. It's called phoenetic syllabication. Two distinct spoken pieces of the word orange. Pron. o-ranj or or-anj depending on what's more comfortable for you, but the first form is considered more correct.

Scot McPherson on February 6, 2010 11:13 PM

MMOs and real life are a lot alike.

Keep getting certs and education and experiences. Collect some necessary as well as unnecessary cool items, keep working on making more money that is if you don't get killed before the end-game.

I happen to like eve-online right now. Its a pretty comprehensive gaming system.

Scot McPherson on February 6, 2010 11:13 PM

How can you be proud of user-generated content, Jeff?

Isn't your thoughtful comment proof that it works a lot of the time?

Jeff Atwood on March 17, 2009 04:01 AM

Certainly, the game eve-online that a couple including myself have mentioned already in nearly entirely player content driven, including the economy. CCP has done an excellent job at remaining hands-off the player driven economy for the 7 years the game has been running (as a single global shard, that's right quarter of a million other players to interact with). Other game producers of games that have made the cut and still are in production have caved into crying about I lost my stuff to that dweeb, why don't you do something about it?. CCP has stayed the course and Eve Online is the purest player driven content game there is...other than real life of course.

Scot McPherson on February 6, 2010 11:13 PM

I'm going to start naming all of my default buttons Execute Jumping

Brandon on February 6, 2010 11:13 PM

A very good video on the topic of gamification was made by the Extra Credits guys and can be found on Penny Arcade TV.

Joachim Sauer on September 21, 2011 4:19 AM

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