Are You a Digital Sharecropper?

August 11, 2009

Will Work for Praise: The Web's Free-Labor Economy describes how many of today's websites are built by the users themselves:

 

It's dawn at a Los Angeles apartment overlooking the Hollywood Hills. Laura Sweet, an advertising creative director in her early 40s, sits at a computer and begins to surf the Net. She searches intently, unearthing such bizarre treasures for sale as necklaces for trees and tattoo-covered pigs. As usual, she posts them on a shopping site called ThisNext.com. Asked why in the world she spends so many hours each week working for free, she answers: "It's a labor of love."

This raises some disturbing parallels. Are users being turned into digital sharecroppers?

 

MySpace, Facebook, and many other businesses have realized that they can give away the tools of production but maintain ownership over the resulting products. One of the fundamental economic characteristics of Web 2.0 is the distribution of production into the hands of the many and the concentration of the economic rewards into the hands of the few. It's a sharecropping system, but the sharecroppers are generally happy because their interest lies in self-expression or socializing, not in making money, and, besides, the economic value of each of their individual contributions is trivial.

sharecroppers-small.jpg

It's only by aggregating those contributions on a massive scale - on a web scale - that the business becomes lucrative.

 

In essence, any website where user generated content is the website, that is also a for-profit business (not a non-profit organization, ala Wikipedia) -- is effectively turning their users into digital sharecroppers. Digital sharecroppers typically get nothing in return for the content they've provided, and often give up all rights to what they've created. At least a real world sharecropper would get to keep a percentage of the crops produced on the land.

The tone of the relationship between virtual land owner and so-called digital sharecroppers is critical. When crowdsourcing goes sour, there can be mass revolts.

 

Wikia is a for-profit corporation launched by several high level people involved with Wikipedia, such as co-founder Jimmy Wales. Wikipedia has no significant financial connection to Wikia. But an enormous publicity benefit accrues to Wikia due to Wikipedia's fame: $14m of venture capital has been invested in Wikia. Its business model is to have a "community" (writers who work for free) to build a wiki website about a topic, and then to sell advertising on those pages. In short, Wikia hosts sites in return for all the ad revenues.

At the start of June, Wikia's CEO announced that many changes would be made to the appearance of sites, mainly to have more advertising and for the ads to be more prominent. As Wikia's community development manager put it: "We have to change things in order to make Wikia financially stable. Unfortunately, Google ads in the footer pay pennies a click, and nobody clicks". He went on to explain that ads paying based on view count were needed. And that type of advertiser wants their ad to be displayed where viewers are sure to see it, such as within an article, near the top.

In reaction, various content creators made it clear they understood the needs of the company and had no objection to advertising per se. But putting ads inside content risked changing their material from articles into decorated billboards. The conflict between management and (unpaid) labour became acrimonious. There were declarations such as: "If Wikia does not resolve this situation to our satisfaction, then we will leave, taking our content, our communities' inward links, our established service marks and our fellow editors with us."

 

 

This is a topic that I've spent a great deal of time thinking about, because we happen to run a site chock full of user generated questions and answers. The last thing I want to do is exploit Stack Overflow users for corporate gain, even accidentally. That's horrible.

So if you spend a lot of time creating content on someone else's website -- whether it's Stack Overflow, or anywhere else on the internet -- I think you should be asking yourself some tough questions:

 

  • What do you get out of the time and effort you've invested in this website? Personally? Professionally? Tangibly? Intangibly?
  • Is your content attributed to you, or is it part of a communal pool?
  • What rights do you have for the content you've contributed?
  • Can your contributions be revoked, deleted, or permanently taken offline without your consent?
  • Can you download or archive your contributions?
  • Are you comfortable with the business model and goals of the website you're contributing to, and thus directly furthering?

There should always be a healthy, reciprocal relationship between you and any websites you're contributing to. I like to think that Stack Overflow gives back to the community as much as it absorbs -- both in the form of Creative Commons shared ownership of the underlying data, and the strong emphasis on showing off the individual skills and knowledge of your fellow programmers.

Ultimately, you have to decide which is more important -- building your own brand, or building the brand of the website you're contributing to? While these two concepts are not necessarily opposed, I strongly urge everyone reading this to err on the side of building your own brand whenever possible. Websites tend to come and go; the only sensible long term strategy is to invest in something that's guaranteed to be around for the rest of your life: you.

But I guess I'm biased.

Posted by Jeff Atwood
81 Comments

I cannot believe it hasn't been said before...

Swing low...
Sweet char-i-ott
Comin for to carry me home....

bigjim on August 12, 2009 4:38 AM

"The last thing I want to do is exploit Stack Overflow users for corporate gain, even accidentally. That's horrible."

'Exploit' is not a useful word -- you need to think about *exactly* what it is you don't want to do to Stack Overflow users.

As far as I can see, the more corporate gain you make out of stack overflow the better for me -- you then have more incentives to keep making it better.

Tom Davies on August 12, 2009 5:37 AM

How can you compare stack overflow to wikipedia? You have a job and stack overflow is a side project am I right?

Naturally you don't think about placing a large emphasis on advertising. There are people out there who need to eat.

VInce on August 12, 2009 5:40 AM

Be honest. You have many, many sharecroppers working for you.

I don't have a problem with that necessarily, as it is a computer and not a hot cotton field, but I think you cloak your intentions and motivations, which I do find dishonest.

A larger % of your posts were quite useful some years ago. That % has dropped off. Today you are very good at "stirring the pot" and getting feedback.

Steve on August 12, 2009 5:42 AM

The question is about being your own master, or part of a bigger group.

the same question can be rephrased about being your own boss or being emplyed by a big company

Daniel on August 12, 2009 5:46 AM

@Daniel YES

I like to work (coding, creating apps) just for fun. It's all about personal freedom.

If you have enough money to live so why work something you don't like?

Omar Abid on August 12, 2009 6:04 AM

As long as you know there's no money involved, I think it's fine, and self-limiting, unlike many "Free and Open Source" projects I've seen which look like methods to sucker (Oops! I meant "harness") the mom's-basement kids into writing business-oriented software systems for free.

ThatGuyInTheBack on August 12, 2009 6:13 AM

In some cases the contributors just want to contribute (whatever it is, code, help, research, etc) and the people running the sites, even if they are making "a profit" give the contributors that chance. I think the social networking sites can be very revealing of the other sites as well. We do social networking for entertainment, and it's free, so we really shouldn't have a problem. We are having fun even if we are generating inordinate amounts of money for someone else at the same time. If you contribute to wikipedia, you are doing it because you are getting some benefit from it as well. Anyone who is doing coding for community projects is happy that they exist - it's much more satisfying that doing personal projects that no one will ever see and you won't ever think about again.

I agree that it would be better to be your own boss, but it's not always practical.

Jeremy Neiman on August 12, 2009 6:18 AM

If folks want to give away their valuable time, that is certainly their prerogative. Non-profit special interest groups exist and thrive. The problem seems to be the impedance mismatch between those who want to make money and those who don't. For anyone who has worked in the arts, you need look no further than to compare a community playhouse to a broadway production. In the community theatre scenario, people are in it for the interest of it, and united in their non-profit-ness. On broadway, there are some enthusiasts involved, to be sure, but for everyone there it's a job, and if they don't make money, they have to pack up and do something else. If you keep these two scenarios divided, you avoid some (although I'm sure not all) of the morass of when one group serves another without sharing motivation, which seems to be what's going on in the situations that Jeff calls out.

Ian on August 12, 2009 6:31 AM

"This raises some disturbing parallels. Are users being turned into digital sharecroppers?"

Excuse my ignorence as I'd never heard of sharecropping until now, but is there an assumption that sharecropping is a bad thing? The Wikipedia page on the subject makes it seem like quite a useful arrangement as long as it's not abused.

In any event, it's difficult to see how this analogy works, as most contributers to community sites are not given a share of their contribution.

Phenwoods on August 12, 2009 6:35 AM

The dude in the right of the picture... Jeff just gifted him a "WOOT!" badge and the intangible sense of belonging.

ian_scho on August 12, 2009 6:36 AM

* Yawn *

Sleepy Smurf on August 12, 2009 6:41 AM

Actually Stackoverflow started giving back from Day one, in the form of unimagined referral visitors!
I just answered a couple of easy questions, putting a modest link back to my website, and visitors started flowing to it.

So don't be afraid, at least SF is a good deal for users, too ;)

Dimitri on August 12, 2009 6:53 AM

"I strongly urge everyone reading this to err on the side of building your own brand whenever possible. [...] the only sensible long term strategy is to invest in something that's guaranteed to be around for the rest of your life: you. "

Taking this to its logical conclusion, we would post the answers to stackoverflow questions on our blog and change the answer to a link the article.

Is this a precursor to a stackoverflow shorterning service? ;)

Pacifika on August 12, 2009 7:02 AM

I'm a "digital sharecropper." I write code for MS operating systems, and the company I work for does the same. If MS decides one day that they're taking their marbles and going home, then I, like my employer, is out of business. Everytime they change their OS so that the code we wrote won't work anymore, we have to step and fetchit.

Peter on August 12, 2009 7:03 AM

I built my own brand. There is no revenue, and I don't think there ever will be.

But it is much more satisfying to do whatever I do on my site, on my terms.

housetier on August 12, 2009 7:07 AM

I think

Dave Markle on August 12, 2009 7:13 AM

talking about advertising... I noticed this site's advertising has disappeared...

DOn on August 12, 2009 7:25 AM

What I get from Stack Overflow is simple. I read more answers than I write. I gain more than the work I do.

This is why I do not have a Facebook or Twitter account. I do not see and gain for me from them.

Grant on August 12, 2009 7:54 AM

"I strongly urge everyone reading this to err on the side of building your own brand whenever possible."

Wiktionary: to err = To make a mistake, (intransitive) To sin,
(archaic) to stray.

Did you write the opposite of what you meant, or do I misread your sentence there?

Svish on August 12, 2009 7:55 AM

Those sites are for people that aren't developers. For them, they're not losing control because they have no other way of sharing their content. We should be asking how we can participate in these communities without sacrificing control. One part of that answer is OpenID.

mqsoh on August 12, 2009 7:56 AM

Phenwoods: Sharecropping has extreme negative connotations in the US because it was basically a way for landowners to have slaves after slavery was abolished. The landowners would charge for the land and seed, and take a percentage of the profit. The workers could never make enough money to pay off the debt, and were stuck in the arrangement forever.

sep332 on August 12, 2009 7:58 AM

Svish:

"to err on the side of" means, that if you're going to get it wrong, it's better to get it wrong in this way, rather than get it wrong the other way.

"to err on the side of caution" is a common usage, and it's saying "I wasn't sure how much risk to take, so I'm probably not taking the right amount of risk, but I'm going to intentionally take less risk (more caution) than I think I could get away with."

You're driving down a road, and don't know the speed limit. How fast do you go? You take a guess at the limit; now, do you go that limit, do you go 5 over your guessed limit, or 5 under your guessed limit? If you err on the side of caution, you'll go 5 under.

Eli on August 12, 2009 8:12 AM

I think you do yourself a disservice by comparing sites like stackoverflow to sharecropping. People contributing to the social web are generally not compelled by poverty and lack of opportunity.

The metaphor doesn't work for me.

Allen on August 12, 2009 8:19 AM

There have been people making profits on social gatherings for a long time. A restaurant will be happy to host a party for you. A bar will want you to come in and socialize. There's nothing fundamentally new about FaceBook. Instead of paying for food or liquor, I'm having ads pop up and (if I feel like it) providing information and photos and maybe apps and whatever.

Similarly, I've contributed on StackOverflow (and have a rep > 10K) and Wikipedia. Answers and corrections are not something I feel I need to treasure. I can always have more ideas and write more stuff. I get a good feeling when people like what I've done, or benefit from it, and this is a quick and easy way to get that feeling. I've coded on what would have been an open source project if it didn't have a noncommercial license. Again, I didn't get a dime, but who cares, as long as it's something I like doing? Nor do I feel this is like sharecropping, as there's no obligation involved.

There are limits, of course. Like many people, I don't want to feel ripped off, and this includes free labor to enrich others more than I like. (I believe this is one reason for the popularity of the Gnu General Public License.) I don't want to feel like I have to do something I'm not getting paid for.

My advice would be to do as you like, and not worry overmuch about people making money off your contributions. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, or it stops being fun, stop.

David on August 12, 2009 8:21 AM

Sure, I'd write for free. I got my first job by donating time writing, translating, and taking pictures for Runner's World. But there should be a clear expectation in the commercial space that if I contribute to your website, you had jolly well better allow me to advertise my goods (MY website, where I sell my book). And, of course, that's sure to evoke hesitation in at least some of these public benefactors' minds...

runbei on August 12, 2009 8:26 AM

Ahh capitalism. That wonderful exploitative system that we all know and love.

But, as you say, the means of production are totally in the hands of the developers. If there was a significant movement towards abandoning this type of work, we'd see those companies tits up.

This doesn't make the companies any less sleazy, though.

Mike Judge on August 12, 2009 8:32 AM

Squidoo.com does the same thing, but they offer 50% of the revenue to the user! now that's smart!

Kenneth Reitz on August 12, 2009 8:42 AM

@Svish
"To err on the side of..." is a common phrase at least in English-English. Err on the side of your own brand would mean it's safer to buil your own brand.
Most common is "Err on the side of caution" means if you are going to do something do the safer version

Anonymous on August 12, 2009 8:42 AM

I think this just means that we are about to see banner ads all over stack overflow just like the ones on server fault.

Kuerwen on August 12, 2009 8:52 AM

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure it's a sustainable model; nor am I entirely sure its an ethical model(actually I'm pretty sure it can be very skeevy ethically).

I participate(Q and A) in stackoverflow/superuser because they are a Net Benefit to me.

Paul Nathan on August 12, 2009 9:19 AM

I think it's a little dangerous to bring it all back to the individual. In a place like StackOverflow, I really think most people are contributing not for personal gain (other than popularity), but hopefully in an attempt to make the world a better place (and by extension, make their lives easier).

I'm more interested in seeing that the big sites properly respect their contributed content, than I am worried about getting a fair share of the pie. We all have hobbies we are willing to do for free, and we all want to leave behind some legacy. If that benefits someone else, it is fine so long as they take on the responsibility for safeguarding our efforts in the future (nothing is really free is it?). It's only when they grossly exploit it, or alter history for their own purposes that I start to get frustrated. Otherwise, a gift is a gift, especially if I gave it freely.

Paul.

Paul W. Homer on August 12, 2009 9:37 AM

Most people simply do not have the gumption or the drive to build their own brand but may have the skill set or interest to create good content. So, they are happy to be contributors to something larger than themselves.

Plus, some folks are just shy.

Drew on August 12, 2009 9:54 AM

@sep332

Thanks for explaining the context, that explains a alot.

But, this context just makes the whole analogy even more ridiculous (and rather offensive). In no way is someone adding to a community site comparable to a penniless ex-slave, being forced to borrow money to buy seed at an exorbitant interest rate.

Phenwoods on August 12, 2009 10:02 AM

Hey Jeff,

Transparent accounting goes a long way with some people, including me. A body of content like Stack Overflow may produce piles of money, or none, and it's impossible to tell which from looking at it. But if I had an income statement to look at, I could be more confident in my decisions about whether to write content for free.

(this assumes there is no other value to me in writing content, which obviously isn't really true for my SO example.)

Most people wouldn't want to publish their budgets. I probably should have addressed this comment "Hey Joel" because he may be more opposed to the idea. But if you do it I'd love to see what happens.

Trav on August 12, 2009 10:26 AM

Well, then why on Earth is anyone posting comments for this article since the comments are creative works being given away for free to the website?!? OMG, you're inciting us to comment on the article and taking advantage of us!1!one!1!

Those so-called share cropping websites provide a service in exchange for the user's efforts, even if it is something as basic as providing free hosting for the user's content. I've uploaded song titles to CDDB because I was hoping that the next time I wanted to look up a CD, the song names and information would be there and it felt like a fair trade.

Simply put, effort does not have to be converted directly into money for an exchange to be fair.

Brad on August 12, 2009 10:51 AM

The useful information I've gleaned from SO is plenty of payment for any contributions I've made. I'm just glad that all that content is under CC license and is indexed by Google for easy access. It's about getting things done, right?

steve on August 12, 2009 10:53 AM

Facebook is pure evil!

YESS on August 12, 2009 10:53 AM

> Is your content attributed to you, or is it part of a communal pool?
> What rights do you have for the content you've contributed?

I assume you're being ironic urging us to ask these questions, when your own site doesn't provide an EULA for contributors, only the CC for consumers.

Bill Karwin on August 12, 2009 11:38 AM

Okay, what is the difference between Wikipedia and Digg -- two profitable websites that allow users to post information and share it without paying for user contributions and StackOverflow that does the same thing?

Sure, you can argue that StackOverflow is helpful to fellow developers, but I bet that 5% of the users post most of the answers. Certainly they're not getting out what they put in! All they're doing is sharecropping for StackOverflow!

I look at it a bit differently. StackOverflow deserves its money because it organized the information to be useful to users. Users who post most of the answers are building up reputations that can help them with their careers. Plus, by seeing what others are doing, it is helping them understand their software better.

I would say the same with Wikipedia. It's turned into a treasure trove of useful -- if not always accurate -- information. What do contributors get out of spending so much time at sites like Facebook and ThisNext.com? I really can't say. Many they're also building reputations that helps them with their career. Maybe they're making on line friends. But, I am not going to say that people are being used because they're free labor for for-profit websites.

> As long as you know there's no money involved, I think it's fine, and self-limiting,
> unlike many "Free and Open Source" projects I've seen which look like methods to
> sucker (Oops! I meant "harness") the mom's-basement kids into writing
> business-oriented software systems for free.

Obvious ThatGuyInTheBack has no idea how Open Source Software even works. Almost 90% of the people who contribute to Linux are actually paid to work on Linux. They work for Google, IBM, Palm, and other companies that heavily depend upon Linux for their business. These companies find people who know Linux inside and out to help their company, and these people spend much of their time working on the Linux kernel itself.

Look at almost all of the big OSS projects, and you'll see that most are actually developed by paid employees. This includes FireFox, WebKit, Subversion, KDE, Gnome, and the entire range of Apache projects. Most of the OSS packages is written by people who are paid to code those packages.

When there are college students doing extensive coding, they are either paid interns via projects like Google's Summer of Code or are also learning and building reputations which will help them in their future career.

The idea that OSS software is built by a bunch of geeky kids in their Mom's basement is used by companies that build proprietary software to smear their OSS competitors.

David W. on August 12, 2009 12:02 PM

The joy of reuniting with some long lost friend with the help of social networking site is unmatched to what the business derives out of running the website.

prakash on August 12, 2009 12:34 PM

You know Jeff, half the guys out there would be happy to give many things and a lot of effort for free, if they were allowed to be in food and rent and computers, peacefully. People in happy situations do that all the time.
The masses are by-and-large, *nice* folks. It's the crooked **doctored** system that distorts everyone's priority list.

What can you and I do?
Nothing yet, it seems: "Everything has a proper time."

The point is that some of us aren't interested in babes, cars and big homes. We love being useful. That's when it hurts - when your efforts are 10 times normal and the system doesn't yield 1/10th.
That's clearly **bad design**. And *we* pay for it in many elaborate steps and schemes. And then, a few years down the line, the system calls you a deserter, to add salt to the wounds. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Complex schedules and vast plans are great only if they *benefit* people without serious collateral damage.

It's either a lack of ethics in the system designers, or,
the chronic plan-and-control obsession is a sign of degradation of the supercomputer's main systems.
/rant

pragmatic on August 12, 2009 1:55 PM

"I strongly urge everyone reading this to err on the side of building your own brand whenever possible"

yes. don't contribute to sides like stackoverflow, build your own ;-)

sunfire on August 13, 2009 2:01 AM

There are really many great articles out there which explain how to make yourself wealthier in knowledge and skill (not money). I would just like to say that some of readers here might like to read this too:

http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

Disclaimer: It is not likeable to everyone, has a strong Linux/Unix leaning, but it has real gems that you probably should read at least once in your career, early on.

promoater on August 13, 2009 2:16 AM

Hey Jeff! That's your choice of picture for a visual aide? Super stereotypical for 2009, don’t cha’ think? Not to say that is not true, but narrow, very narrow.

Robert Nickens on August 13, 2009 3:35 AM

This comparison to sharecropping is totally bogus.

The essential evil of sharecropping lies in the inequaity between the landowner and the tennant. The landowner exploits that inequality by putting the tennant in debt and _forcig_ him to keep producing to pay it off. Leaving the land was a ticket to either jail or the noose.

On the interwebs, the "tennant" can leave or stop producing at any time without any dire consequences. The worst that could happen is that you lose some content.

The Court Jeffster on August 13, 2009 4:04 AM

@Eli
"You're driving down a road, and don't know the speed limit. How fast do you go? You take a guess at the limit; now, do you go that limit, do you go 5 over your guessed limit, or 5 under your guessed limit? If you err on the side of caution, you'll go 5 under."

Don't meant to be pedantic but I think that may be an incorrect analogy..to err on the side of caution in this example you would pick what you KNOW to be the lowest speed limit on the roads in that state or city and drive at that speed...only to find out that you were doing 30 in a 60 mile zone - then you had erred on the side of caution. Making an arbitrary guess and then driving 5 mph slower then that aribtrary guess is more likely to end up with you saying "but Officer, I erred on the side of caution! I was only doing 95 mph, how did I know it was only a 30 mph zone" ;)

Stephen on August 13, 2009 4:05 AM

StackOverflow is nothing new.

If you have some years you will remember things called newsgroups, with nntp protocol.

Just they are in decline now because of the traffic generated and the money needed for the ISPs, now or they charge or they ban them (with the usual stupid excuses like porn, terrorism, child safety and so on).

So take a newsgroup, give it a fancy graphic layout provided by web, give it a reputation automatic system because today users are more lazy and superficial and they does not remember the nicknames of serious people contributing to a newsgroup and they do not want form their own opinions and prefer read a reputation score... you have SO.


xlr8 on August 13, 2009 4:53 AM

This is *exactly* why I agree with the long-forgotten BSD advertisement clause. If I do some work for free and you choose to use my work... well, I want the benefit of (at least) having my name mentioned somewhere.

Anthony Cuozzo on August 13, 2009 7:38 AM

Coming from many generations of Southern sharecroppers, your analogy definitely caught my eye. Sharecropping was a way of survival, the most manual of unskilled labor jobs, with the goal to simply get enough food in the house to keep the children from starving. All sharecropper families had the dream of land ownership but their subsistence lifestyle never provided enough income for them to attain it. Education? Not if they had a field to work. Your photo, by the way, has some of the cleanest and well dressed sharecroppers I have seen. The few family photos we have are harrowing.

Now, "digital" sharecroppers? Exploiting a user's enthusiasm and entertainment to generate popular content and revenue from ad placement: that sounds like a good business model. Definitely not sharecropping.

Julie Riggs on August 13, 2009 8:49 AM

Jeff, a couple of points...

(1) While you quoted the Guardian article that contends there's no major financial link between Wikia, Inc. and Wikipedia, I think it is still worth noting that when late last year the Ruth and Frank Stanton Fund gifted the Wikimedia Foundation with over $800,000 for a Usability Initiative, one of the first damn things the Foundation did was to run a lopsided "office space search", where -- SURPRISE, SURPRISE -- the winning bid (though not the lowest bid) went to... Wikia, Inc.! So Jimmy Wales sits on the Board of Trustees that oversaw the award of monthly rental checks to the new landlord -- a privately-held company co-founded by Wales. Talk about self-dealing!

(2) I run a digital sharecropper site called MyWikiBiz.com. However, every editor there is welcome to take ownership of "their" directory pages and place their own Google AdSense ads on them. So, while they are helping to build "my" site, they are also setting themselves up for a 100%-their-own revenue stream for the rest of their lives. I think this is about the most fair way to share in the growth potential of a socially-crafted website.

Gregory Kohs on August 13, 2009 8:50 AM

Some people blog and some people contribute information to sites such as Squidoo, Wikipedia, or StackOverflow. I don't think there is necessarily problem with doing any of the above. Whether you’re branding yourself or someone else, what’s the difference if somehow your getting something in return-even if it’s just a feeling of self worth. No one is holding a gun to anyone’s head or forcing them to contribute to these sites.

Tanya on August 13, 2009 9:19 AM

I'm a freelancer and I get lots of work on my own. I'm not rich but it's paying the bills.

Gerald Morris on August 13, 2009 10:46 AM

Regarding the "to err on the side of" discussion, I'm surprised no one bothered to mention that Svish was right: err *does* mean a mistake. The phrase in question basically means that if you are going to make a mistake (and you likely will), make it in such-and-such way.

Thusly,

I strongly urge everyone reading this to err on the side of building your own brand whenever possible.

could be reworded to say:

In order to avoid regretting a mistake, I strongly urge everyone reading this to defer to making your own brand whenever possible.

A Guy on August 13, 2009 1:24 PM

An interesting article.
The masses act like sheep so are treated like sheep and the internet is one big sheep dog for herding them into to look at that one big billboard that is also the internet. Just who is doing the whistling?

Sam on August 13, 2009 1:45 PM

There is nothing that stop you from developing your own brand on SO, the platform is merely a tool, what's important is the community, you get noticed, and you notice people, so long as you use your real name or your branding name.

Also there is nothing wrong with making the user participate, as long as he is well aware of it and how you are taking advantage/giving back, let him choose if the deal satisfy him or not.

Also first comment here, very good blog and extensive linking made me discover quite a few other interesting blogs.

Koray on August 14, 2009 5:59 AM

> well, I want the benefit of (at least) having my name mentioned somewhere.

FaceBook is taking your code for itself but you still are the author. In Canada your would have to be written on your piece of code if you ask for it.

Monkios on August 14, 2009 7:09 AM

@Eli: Aha. Thanks for clearing it up!

Svish on August 14, 2009 1:26 PM

I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Margaret

http://grantfoundation.net

Margaret on August 14, 2009 1:34 PM

How about the scam that is scientific publishing ! It has to be the ultimate digital sharecropping : Large volumes of research locked up, only $19.99 for a read :S

Donny on August 15, 2009 1:30 PM

I think sometimes it's the old Tom Sawyer trick of having the kid pay you to paint the fence.

But it's not always like that. Sometimes it has more to do with your motive. If your motive is to help people with your content, you might not always want to turn a monetary profit, but rather one of prestige among your peers.

However, if this is your motive, you have to make sure you're helping the people you intend to help. If the website owner is gonna turn around, take down and sell the content you intended to help the general public, then you might not be helping who you indended to.

Andrew J. Leer on August 16, 2009 10:28 AM

We (as users) are donating our time and intellectual property. You (as developers) donate your time, hardware and bandwidth. I don't feel short-changed in the deal.

All services go both ways -- when you shop at a local store, you're donating your money, and the owner donates his time, shelf space, transport etc.

It all becomes clearer when you don't think of services as products. A database of CD tracks is only useful if it contains all the CDs, and most importantly all the new ones, so it's the user-provided service of keeping the database up-to-date that gives it its value, not the database itself. For me SO is most important as the service of other people answering my programming questions, so even if you somehow managed to "steal" the data from the public, without the community it wouldn't be worth much.

Pies on August 17, 2009 4:27 AM

I think as long as a website doesn't try to claim copyright over user's freely contributed works, it should be fine with most people. What really pissed off people on Facebook was the claim they could use any photos you uploaded without your permission.

I'd say that was actually pretty close to illegal.

Bill on August 23, 2009 6:12 AM

Dammit, as I was reading that I thought Jeff was about to announce some sort of ad-revenue sharing deal with the stack overflow users :(

Jack Ukleja on August 29, 2009 8:27 AM

Jeff,

It's interesting that your raise this spectre. I presume you figured it was better to take the initiative before the community wakes up?

To all those 'happy' commenters out there it's very simple: Stack Overflow is not an equitable transaction. If it was, then by definition it would be non-profit making.

All the users who claim they are getting more out than they put in... well they are, by definition, the exception.

Please remember that SO is making lots of money, and it's growing.

How is it growing? It's positive feedback - the more questions are asked and asnwered, the more google juice, the community grows etc.

Stack Overflow is a massive pot of gold.

And Jeff is not stupid. Not only does Stack Overflow LEVERAGE the community for monetary gain... Jeff is smart enough to know he can LEVERAGE the product and repackage it in many many forms (Super User, Server Fault etc)...this is leverage of leverage... you cannot get more profitable than that!

OK, so Jeff will become a millionaire. He has put hard work in and built some good software.

I beleive Jeff should be rewarded for his efforts in writing the software... but leverage is a perverse thing. Using Stack Overflow (i.e. its community) Jeff can make MUCH more money than one man alone can make by straight hours worked. And I beleive there are limits to the riches we should feel comfortable gained through human leverage.

Don't forget it's the community that has donated 100% of the content which makes up stack overflow, free of charge. Jeff is leveraging the community. Simple.

I guess my question is Jeff... what are you going to do with all your millions? I suppose being an intelligent guy you will quickly realise there are only so many plastic guitars you can buy before it gets boring.

So what's the grand plan?

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http://life-vkontakte.com/ on September 3, 2009 9:46 AM

@Omar Abid:

Stop spamming me you utter arsehole. You scraped my email address off the full-disclosure mailing list years ago and ever since have been bombarding me with spammy "friend" requests from every stupid latest-fad social networking site you ever join. Let me make it perfectly clear:

YOU ARE NOT MY FRIEND I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF YOU NOW SOD OFF AND LEAVE ME ALONE!

DaveK on September 6, 2009 3:33 AM

Jeff, while I was reading your blog, the TV was on, and Jeremy Piven's character (Dean) in "Serendipity" had the following rant:

Jonathan: Forget about privacy laws. You know what privacy laws do?
Leasing Office Temp: No.
Jonathan: They protect millionaires. You know who those millionaires are?
Leasing Office Temp: Who?
Jonathan: Tell him who they are. Tell him.
Dean: Kids your age. Pimple-faced college drop outs who have made unhealthy sums of money forming internet companies that create no concrete products, provide no viable services, and still manage to generate profits for all of its lazy day-trading son-of-a bitch shareholders. Meanwhile, as a tortured member of the disenfranchised proletariat, you find some altruistic need to protect these digital plantation-owners?
Jonathan: [reacting to Dean's speech] Wow!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0240890/quotes

benc on September 9, 2009 8:13 AM

I thought I was the only one that felt that way, but you really nailed it. Nothing is free. It may appear so but nothing is. And while I think some sites start with noble attempts, the lure of wealth is too good and they start compromising their core values.

cathy on September 11, 2009 7:51 AM

@Cathy: No.

They often realize, "Oh shit! My monthly bandwidth charges are more than I can afford!"

Because, after all, if you tie up an ISP's switch port, you're going to get socked for it. That's a form of denial of service to other users on that switch. This is why numerous ISPs charge beyond market rates for excessive bandwidth overages.

Ad revenue is used to help amortize the cost of bandwidth in an economy that favors fixed-rate billing, instead of a more proper pay-for-what-you-use model. And, because ad revenue is roughly proportional to page views, and because bandwidth expenses are relatively fixed for any given class of service, *AND* because attendance to a website roughly dies off with time unless new content appears all the time, it follows that it's in the site owner's best interests to continue to entice new page views to maintain sufficient income levels from advertising. And with market inflation and a dollar backed by debt instead of by hard currency, it follows even further that the only way to stay in business is to continually grow. So, it's not even sufficient to achieve a steady state (for very long, that is).

In today's retarded economy, your business MUST grow to even survive, let alone reap significant rewards.

I encourage you to watch the documentary "The Corporation." Although many complain of a strong left-leaning bias, actual interviews with real, honest to goodness, brick-and-mortar business owners illustrates that a significant percentage of them DO NOT perform their evils because they want to -- it's because they have to.

So, cut them some slack. It's really quite clear you've never owned or operated a business facing real-world resource constraints.

Sam on September 12, 2009 9:45 AM

@Cathy: No.

They often realize, "Oh shit! My monthly bandwidth charges are more than I can afford!"

Because, after all, if you tie up an ISP's switch port, you're going to get socked for it. That's a form of denial of service to other users on that switch. This is why numerous ISPs charge beyond market rates for excessive bandwidth overages.

Ad revenue is used to help amortize the cost of bandwidth in an economy that favors fixed-rate billing, instead of a more proper pay-for-what-you-use model. And, because ad revenue is roughly proportional to page views, and because bandwidth expenses are relatively fixed for any given class of service, *AND* because attendance to a website roughly dies off with time unless new content appears all the time, it follows that it's in the site owner's best interests to continue to entice new page views to maintain sufficient income levels from advertising. And with market inflation and a dollar backed by debt instead of by hard currency, it follows even further that the only way to stay in business is to continually grow. So, it's not even sufficient to achieve a steady state (for very long, that is).

In today's retarded economy, your business MUST grow to even survive, let alone reap significant rewards.

I encourage you to watch the documentary "The Corporation." Although many complain of a strong left-leaning bias, actual interviews with real, honest to goodness, brick-and-mortar business owners illustrates that a significant percentage of them DO NOT perform their evils because they want to -- it's because they have to.

So, cut them some slack. It's really quite clear you've never owned or operated a business facing real-world resource constraints.

Sam on September 12, 2009 9:46 AM

@Sam,

Amen to what you said.

I don't believe Jeff Atwood is talking about community sites and blogs that are trying to get by and pay their hosting bills.

When I was reading this, I was thinking about Tuts+. To be fair, I was directed here after I wrote something about Envato on my blog.

Jeff Atwood says:

“In essence, any website where user generated content is the website, that is also a for-profit business (not a non-profit organization, ala Wikipedia) -- is effectively turning their users into digital sharecroppers.”

This totally applies to Envato's Tuts+ network.

The different Tuts+ websites *are* their content and that content is user-generated. Envato's business model is all about exploiting the User-creator... creators of design and code and creators of content (article, tutorial, screencast, etc.).

People who comment on the Tuts+ sites are digital sharecroppers too. Comments are quite often superior in quality and the interest-they-generate to the article they're attached to.

And the people who contribute articles are digital sharecroppers. They get paid $150 per article (if they also produce a lengthy screencast they may get paid a little more), and that's a bit ridiculous given the revenues these sites generate with advertising and premium subscriptions.

Tuts+ even organized a contest where people submitted screencasts in the hope of getting "fame and fortune" by getting selected among the top 5. The no 1 winner would get $500 and the 4 runner-ups would get $100. Everyone had to use this One new hosted screencast service. I wonder how much Envato got paid by Screenr just to organize that contest.

It's smart. Because it's good business. But. I feel uncomfortable.

Caroline Schnapp on October 23, 2009 9:25 AM

@Sam,

Amen to what you said.

I don't believe Jeff Atwood is talking about community sites and blogs that are trying to get by and pay their hosting bills.

When I was reading this, I was thinking about Tuts+. To be fair, I was directed here after I wrote something about Envato on my blog.

Jeff Atwood says:

“In essence, any website where user generated content is the website, that is also a for-profit business (not a non-profit organization, ala Wikipedia) -- is effectively turning their users into digital sharecroppers.”

This totally applies to Envato's Tuts+ network.

The different Tuts+ websites *are* their content and that content is user-generated. Envato's business model is all about exploiting the User-creator... creators of design and code and creators of content (article, tutorial, screencast, etc.).

People who comment on the Tuts+ sites are digital sharecroppers too. Comments are quite often superior in quality and the interest-they-generate to the article they're attached to.

And the people who contribute articles are digital sharecroppers. They get paid $150 per article (if they also produce a lengthy screencast they may get paid a little more), and that's a bit ridiculous given the revenues these sites generate with advertising and premium subscriptions.

Tuts+ even organized a contest where people submitted screencasts in the hope of getting "fame and fortune" by getting selected among the top 5. The no 1 winner would get $500 and the 4 runner-ups would get $100. Everyone had to use this One new hosted screencast service. I wonder how much Envato got paid by Screenr just to organize that contest.

It's smart. Because it's good business. But. I feel uncomfortable.

Caroline Schnapp on October 23, 2009 9:26 AM

Ha! I thought Joel was going to explode on a recent podcast when you bushwhacked him with talk of open sourcing the SO code just as he's ramping up efforts to sell its use commercially. And now you're acknowledging that you're harvesting the efforts of others in an effort that Jason Calacanis estimated could result in a billion dollars in profits to Spolsky et al.

This should be fun...

Don McArthur on February 6, 2010 11:22 PM

Its pretty difficult to maintain control of your own brand, for example the Google results for your own name. Most of the sites for user-generated content will quickly develop a higher PageRank than an individual blog is likely to achieve, and if your real name ever appears on that site it will quickly move up to the top of the results. You either refrain from participating, or you exclusively use pseudonyms and forfeit most of the benefits of your participation.

Denton Gentry on February 6, 2010 11:22 PM

Dude... what? Sometimes i have to wonder if you're retarded. Was this supposed to be informative or inspirational or something? Because either you literally and paradoxically just found the internet today, or you're utterly shrewd and cynical in its attempt to harness the one thing that actually does fuel community sites: rambling posts that can only be parsed by those who don't care what they're replying to so long as it looks grammatically sound enough to continue the conversational game of marco polo that is the blogosphere. Thank fuck you don't have trackbacks set to nest in the comments.

Secondly, Web 2.0 is to the media what Second Life was to... the media. "Here's how it works. Entrepreneurs like Gould build meeting places that provide visitors with tools to express themselves, mingle with friends and strangers, and establish their personal 'brands.' The result, when it works, is an outpouring of creativity."

WRONG, NO, HOLY NO, INCORRECT

It allows sadsack 40-year old "advertising creative directors" (a totally not made up position, by the way) to continue being sycophants and attention whores.

PSSSST! Keep quiet about how Web 2.0 is in full-on perpetual loop mode now! If anything breaks us out of it, we might have to come up with a markup language that makes sense! If i had to play a 3D game with curved surfaces like Quake Live in a browser that utilized the moon magic of actual 2D coordinates to accurately render rectangles and squares, it might be a slippery slope into a reality where people could easily make their own sites instead of using crap like FaceBook to show off their complete lack of taste!

Also, the audio captcha was "Whether you believe it or not, your wife has another husband". The internet is awesome.

Jon R. on February 6, 2010 11:22 PM

Actually, that's the one comparison that makes sense with this whole sharecropping deal. There very much is an inequality between the tennant and landowner roles, as is evident to anyone who's see the sheer number of bullshit ToS and "copyright infringement" takedowns on YouTube, which somehow result in the cancellation of entire accounts instead of just the videos allegedly guilty of violation/infringement. And by "anyone who's seen", i mean "anyone who hasn't been living in a fucking cave since YouTube hit big".

The worst that can happen isn't that you lose some content. It's that you lose a place to put that content. This would be a very real problem if it weren't for other places to put that content, which itself forks into two other areas.

The first is the matter of competition. This is only valid if they're not entirely based on the concept of delivering ads, like GameTrailers is, as opposed to actually delivering the content that makes those ads even remotely possible. In the case of YouTube, it's a regular occurance where the very people who are routinely screwed are the ones who are not only adding value to the service punishing them, but also adding value to the mediums whose notoriously stupid/abusive/suicidal/criminal cartels are putting pressure to the service to do so.

The second is the sad state of bandwidth in most of the Western world, which has been an elephant in the room for about a decade now, so nice job keeping up. You make it sound like "oooh, you might have to host your videos yourself, big deal" when, in fact, it is. This goes back to the point of having somewhere to put things, which means infrastructure, which has been hampered by more douchebags at national telecoms. And you don't realize this because you're a moron.

P.S. Nice nick, queer.

P.S.S. Fucking install Akismet already, Jeff.

Jon R. on February 6, 2010 11:22 PM

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Leonardmari on August 6, 2010 12:10 PM

Interesting analogy, sharecroppers as in documentary http://www.enjoypoverty.com

My questions is: who's the poor soul that - like in the film - can't sell the photos they make, today?

Edoardo Causarano on January 14, 2011 5:17 AM

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