Treating User Myopia

October 22, 2009

I try not to talk too much about the trilogy here, because there's a whole other blog for that stuff. But some of the lessons I've learned in the last year while working on them really put into bold relief some of my earlier blog entries on usability and user behavior.

One entry in particular that I keep coming back to is Teaching Users to Read. That was specific to dialog boxes, which not only stop the proceedings with idiocy, but are their own delightful brand of user interface poison. Fortunately, you don't see dialogs in web apps much, but this sort of modal dialog lunacy is, sadly, becoming more popular in today's AJAX-y world of web 2.5. Those who can't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, I guess.

Having five more years of development experience under my belt, I no longer believe that classic Larson strip is specific to dialog boxes.

What Dogs Hear

The plain fact is users will not read anything you put on the screen.

What we're doing with the trilogy is not exactly rocket surgery. At its core, we run Q&A websites. And the most basic operation of any Q&A website is … asking a question. Something any two year old child knows how to do.

When we launched superuser.com, that was our thirdfourth Q&A website. This one is for power users, and it's the broadest to date, topic-wise: anything dealing with computer software or hardware (that isn't gaming) is allowed.

superuser.com

We've been at this for over a year now, doing nothing but relentlessly polishing and improving our Q&A engine based on community feedback. We're not particularly good, but we do try very, very hard not to suck. I thought surely, surely we must have something as simple as the ask question form down by now.

How foolish I was.

Let's take a look at one recent superuser question. I'm presenting it here as it would have been seen by the user who asked the question, while they were entering it on the ask question form.

su-ask-resized.png

Immediately, there's a problem. The question formatting is completely wrong! It's one big jumble of text.

Our formatting rules aren't complicated. You can get a lot done with a bunch of simple paragraphs. We use Markdown, which offers basic formatting conventions that ape ASCII conventions. On top of that, we offer a real-time preview of how your question will look once submitted, directly under the question entry area. But none of that seemed to work for this particular asker, who, apparently, was totally satisfied with obviously broken formatting -- even though a few choice carriage returns would have worked wonders, and been immediately visible in the live preview.

Yes, yes, it inevitably gets whipped into shape through the collective efforts of our legions of community editors -- but that's not the point. It's best if the original asker gets the question formatted right to start with, and it is our job as UI designers to make that outcome as statistically likely as we can.

To that end, we've put a bunch of helpful tools on the ask question page to help users get the formatting right. As UI designers, here's how we see the ask question page:

su-ask-what-we-want-the-user-to-see.png

We've provided a toolbar with a neon pink help button above the question body, and to the right of the question body, we've provided a handy formatting quick reference with a link to the full formatting reference (which opens in a tab / new window by default).

But none of that matters, because here's how the user sees the ask question page:

su-ask-what-the-user-sees.png

Or rather, here's everything the user doesn't see.

When I said users don't read anything you put on the screen, I was lying. Users do read. But users will only read the absolute minimum amount of text on the screen necessary to complete their task. I can't quite explain it, but this kind of user myopia is epidemic. It's the same problem, everywhere I turn.

How do we treat user myopia? How do we reach these users? The ask question page is already dangerously close to cluttered with helpful tips, but apparently these helpful buttons, links, and text are all but invisible to a large segment of the user population. Sure, you could argue that Super User tends to attract less sophisticated users, but I see the exact same problem with programmers on Stack Overflow. As new users, a significant percentage of them can't figure out how to format code, even though there's not only a toolbar button that does it for you, but help text on the right explicitly describing how to do it manually. (Just indent 4 spaces. Spoiler alert!)

More and more, I'm thinking we need to put the formatting help -- for new users only -- directly in their line of sight. That is, pre-populate the question entry area with some example formatting that is typical of the average question. Nothing complicated. But at least then it'd be in the one -- and apparently the only one -- place myopic users are willing to look. Right in front of their freakin' faces.

The next time you're designing a UI, consider user myopia. You might be surprised just how myopic your users can be. Think long and hard about placing things directly in front of them, where they are not just visible, but unavoidable. Otherwise they might not be seen at all.

Posted by Jeff Atwood
484 Comments

Jeff,

don't take it the hard way, but nobody reads all the text. Not even you, that is. You're just better at guessing what'll be the general message anywhere and you probably have a better memory of what was where on a site/class of sites. This is why pictures work well, and formatting does a lot. Using formatting it is possible to convey the 'message' of an area without requiring anyone to actually read it........ unless....

..... he or she actually _wants_ (to read) that info

seth@mailinator.com on October 23, 2009 9:58 AM

I absolutely agree with you that users will read only the bare minimum that they need to and ignore everything else. However, I completely disagree that this issue is the reason why people are having trouble with this form.

The real issue is that the formatted post does not exactly match what the user typed in. Whether or not the user should put an extra space between paragraphs is irrelevant; the fact is that they are typing something in and it is NOT coming out exactly the same on the other end.

You're asking users to adjust their personal habits/preferences so that they align with your system. That's backwards. Your system should respect the fact that users don't necessarily WANT to follow your specific conventions. You're burdening them with extra work that's completely unrelated to why they're at your site in the first place. That's the problem.

James on October 23, 2009 9:59 AM

By and large, people are stupid. It's not only that they WON'T read; a lot of them simply can't read very well. Nor can they write.

I have a Preview button on my comments - almost no one uses it.

My solution: any CR gets translated to a BR. If they know how to use PRE, B, I and other simple tags, I let them. If not, very simple text is what they get.

Works for me.


Tony Lawrence on October 23, 2009 9:59 AM

I still run across users who don't grok "word-wrap". This may not be entirely their fault, as it's still not ubitquitous in places like e-mail and Notepad, but if something as simple as that isn't easy enough that users are putting explicit carriage returns at tend of every line, then this problem isn't going to be solved by user-education.

Remember the Microsoft paperclip? Clippy was supposed to watch user behavior and when it noticed something that the user was doing inefficiently, it would offer a helpful tip in a very obvious animated in your face way.

This worked wonders for the users that were in need of education, and it annoyed the hell out of users who didn't need it, or didn't want education.

Good luck, but be careful about re-inventing Clippy.

Neal Tibrewala on October 23, 2009 9:59 AM

1. No Markdown
2. parse URLs into links
3. "white-space: pre-line;" on output, http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#propdef-white-space

Problem solved.

Michal Migurski on October 23, 2009 9:59 AM

You example and the implementation suck. It's a What You See is Not What You Get.
There are paragraph breaks in the text the user types, but they mysteriously disappear in the final text. Unlike in this comment BTW.

Igor on October 23, 2009 10:00 AM

I typed it the way I wanted you to see it. I am not going to learn an editing tool to submit stuff to a site. Follow the principle of least suprise.

Angus on October 23, 2009 10:01 AM

You could do the slashdot thing and force users to preview before posting. However, I am not 100% sure a user who has their post mangled in this fashion will know that they need to enter an add'l cr in order to get it to show up correctly.

Matt R on October 23, 2009 10:02 AM

I think there's a Meta-rule of UI design, before fancy features and making people read directions (which, true, is hard): UI is most successful when it does just what you expect, with NO need for prompts. That is a very hard-to-acheive but Zen-like state. A new user simply starts using a system and says, "Oh, ok. I get it." And they are right, and they use it correctly.

It seems to follow that if I type plain ol' unformatted text into a site that is explicitly designed for the SIMPLEST possible data entry, that the default behaviour would be that the result looks just exactly like what I typed. Call it the "duh" principle. Type, click save. After that principle is satisfied, THEN add extra possibilities around optional formatting.

Merl on October 23, 2009 10:04 AM

oh and
> Also, for those of you complaining about the WYSIWYG rich editors

No one complains about WYSIWYG editors. I see some complaining about the lack thereof.

Furthermore many are complaining about your complaining about the users. Isn't that who you are serving? I don't see the users complaining about having to go through hoopos when all they want to do is type a question up.

Stop complaining?

seth@mailinator.com on October 23, 2009 10:05 AM

You claim that this guy didn't put an extra newline between paragraphs, but he *did* put one before the last paragraph. The list is an extension of the first paragraph, which leads directly into it. It makes sense to tack the list on to the end like that.

Steve Johnson on October 23, 2009 10:05 AM

I hope you're still reading all those comments. :)

This isn't a problem with markdown. Markdown works equally fine for people who haven't even heard of it yet and advanced users. When creating a community it's better to have a little bit more advanced tools than tools that aren't as powerful as they should be.

The main problem is that those people don't care about the community. They've just googled for "programming question site" and found stackoverflow. They don't bother to read the FAQ or the help. They'll move on to another site just as quickly as they came.

This is pretty obvious if you look at those questions. They usually don't have a proper question as the title but something along the line of "Help, I'm stuck with a problem!" More often than not the body isn't in a good shape either: One big blob of text, exclamation marks sprinkled over the text and English that's worse than one can expect even from a non-native speaker. There are no excuses for using teh, plz, u and other slang expressions.

The sad news is: there isn't much you can do about them. They won't start caring about your site. Don't try to persuade them. What might help is the close-reason "Question of too low quality." (Many people just close them as "Not a real question".) Maybe even allowing custom soft-close reasons which let the author of the question reopen the question by editing it.

Maybe trying to ignore them and give the community tools to handle those cases quickly is the best way to go.

gs on October 23, 2009 10:06 AM

Hurrah, someone hit the nail on the head:

"If I am otherwise NOT using ANY markdown, the system STILL mangles my post because it applies markdown 100% of the time, even if I have no clue what markdown is or, alternately, even if I know what it is but I don't want to apply any markdown transformation."

Exactly.

The issue is not with having to learn code to do fancy formatting. The issue is with writing with basic, elemental, stuff-that-five-year-olds-can-do formatting - ie spaces and carriage returns - and then having that ripped up and turned ito junk by the formatting engine.

And can we drop this daft notion that WYSIWYG inherently means fancy styling. Notepad is WYSIWYG and it works fine for writing short messages.

Anonymous on October 23, 2009 10:07 AM

So make the text entry box behave in a way users expect. They're not stupid really, it's just that they don't differentiate between MS Word's text entry system or this white box I am typing into, or anywhere else they have to enter information.

It's a box, you type in it. There is a certain expectation that the text will look like this when I save it and see it again.

If the user is required to type formatting junk into the text entry box, they won't bother.

Remember - the people asking for help are often busy, in the middle of an important task that they can no longer complete and under pressure to complete that task. The last thing they want to think about is formatting text; it's hard enough wording a highly specific problem as a generic query that other people can help with.

James on October 23, 2009 10:10 AM

Also, fix your damn comment system. My comment was posted, but I got this page:

Publish failed: Renaming tempfile 'C:\codinghorror\blog\archives\001306.html.new' failed: Renaming 'C:\codinghorror\blog\archives\001306.html.new' to 'C:\codinghorror\blog\archives\001306.html' failed: Permission denied

Steve Johnson on October 23, 2009 10:11 AM

Echoing what other's have said... as soon as you put advertising in that right column, you can no longer put anything useful there. The right column == advertising. The whole thing. It's not your space anymore.

Tree on October 23, 2009 10:12 AM

I don't think the issue here is about users not reading or not seeing the instructions right there in front of them. I think it's a more serious issue, and if you spent any time on forums, Youtube, or Myspace, or any site which lets users customize things, you would see the real problem: users don't care what their content looks like.

The average user simply does not care what their post, video, profile page, or whatever, actually looks like, and you can shove previews down their throats all you want - they simply do not care. Most forum posts are unreadable, full of misspellings, formatting problems, lack of paragraphs, capital letters, and punctuation. Most videos are unwatchable, often posted with no editing at all. Most Myspace pages are impossible to read. It's almost as if the user never even looked at their content after they posted it! Oh wait... yup, that's what happens.

BTW, I would suggest removing the Far Side comic... Gary Larson is known for defending his copyright, and he seems to be immune to the Streisand effect. That is why it's nearly impossible to find the Far Side on the net anywhere.

Jasmine on October 23, 2009 10:16 AM

Asynchronous animation might help draw the attention of the user. If, after the page has loaded, or after the user begins typing, the formatting reference div were to fade in, then his attention is drawn there.

Still, if the user simply doesn't care, there's not much to be done about that :)

TK on October 23, 2009 10:18 AM

Lot of good comments here. A lot… so someone may have said this earlier.

One of the lessons I've learned through a lot of hard experience is:

Do not trust users to do anything.

It's a step further than what Jeff stated: "… users will only read the absolute minimum amount of text on the screen necessary to complete their task."

My experience states that: "… users will only DO the absolute minimum necessary to complete their task, whether it's reading, clicking, discovery, experimentation… *anything.*"

Whatever "it" is, I always try to just DO it for the user.

If there are any steps a user needs to take, remove them.

Or do it automatically.

Or walk them through it using simple words, as if you're talking to a small child (but without implying that they're idiots, of course).

Don't assume sophisticated users aren't prone to bouts of idiocy. They (read: We) are.

So perhaps in this case, a solution would be: make it a WYSIWYG editor. (Redmine actually has a good one that also allows for and other "non-standard" bits.) Have a button that allows users to toggle between the WYSIWYG editor and the standard Markdown editor w/ live preview.

Justin D on October 23, 2009 10:18 AM

This is a classic case of a user interface that sucks. You type one thing and it turns it into trash. Why would I look at the preview if I am not trying to do any formatting? Why would I expect to HAVE to look at the preview?

No.

The problem here is a formatting engine that gets in the way.

Rip that stupid thing right out, replace \r\n with HTML line breaks, and you're done.

The user is always right. If you, as a programmer, put in something that is unexpected by the user, even though you put notices in green on hot pink, it's still your fault for not creating something that the users will naturally use correctly.

I ask the same question again: Why the f*ck would you expect me, the user, to double check my formatting if I have not added any formatting code? It is assumed that my formatting does not need double checking since I put in no formatting codes into my prose.

gm on October 23, 2009 10:22 AM

This is something that I've wondered on all sorts of generally well designed sites - why not have your input box exactly the same as what you are expecting to come out? Same font size, same width, etc.

This message box has significantly less width than the area for comments above it - so I have absolutely no clue what it will look like when it hits the line breaks.

Even the "WYSIWYG" editors don't give you the same thing you entered if the parameters of the input box aren't exactly the same as what you get out of it.

On a slightly separate note (and similar to your previous posts about the worst code being your own), I find it somewhat entertaining that you can write about poor usability and trying to force users to do things your way, and then go ahead and do all the things that you are complaining about. Reminds me of myself, and based on this article I'm going to go change the input of one of the programs I'm developing right now.

Anonymous on October 23, 2009 10:27 AM

I completely screwed up the formatting on one of my first answers on StackOverflow for a reason similar to the myopia that Jeff described. But it was not entirely my fault. I was running the NoScript add-on for Firefox, which I had told to allow stackoverflow.com. Unfortunately, it was still blocking googleapis.com and with that blocked I was not even shown the real-time preview or the formatting buttons. The Formatting Reference was there, but there's no "Preview Post" button, so I didn't know if my formatting was working or not (It wasn't).

Now, I may not be a typical user, but NoScript is used commonly enough that some sort of warning that the real-time preview was disabled sure would have been nice.

My point is, while user myopia is VERY real (an I'm as guilty of it as anyone) StackOverflow simply didn't show me what I needed to see.

On the other hand, Jeff, you and your team have created one of my new favorite web-sites. I'm visiting there almost every day, even if I'm not posting questions or answers. Keep up the good work.

A.J. on October 23, 2009 10:31 AM

I should note, by the way, that if there were *no* Markdown, and the user's question were to be posted to the site exactly as he wrote it, monospaced font, single linefeeds and all - that too would be WYSIWYG.

Personally I want some formatting options (bold, italic, bullets, code tags) - but that doesn't mean I need everything on MS Word's toolbar. Still, I should make the changed to the text I type, and see it right where I typed it. I should not have to scroll down to see if the result is actually what I thought it would be - I should see it right there, where I'm already looking.

Bryan on October 23, 2009 10:33 AM

Until I saw the neon pink version with the arrows, I didn't notice it either.

Nearly 15 years of web browsing has trained my brain to ignore the narrow side columns because THAT'S WHERE THE CRAP IS (i.e. annoying ads).

So, yes, I think some kind of cue within the "content area" is needed to draw a user's attention to the tips over to the right...

Jim Harte on October 23, 2009 10:34 AM

as a technical writer, i find this entire discussion hilarious. user myopia is present everywhere, folks. users don't want a damned phone book listing every single feature of your app, they just want to get something done & some moron in management chose your app as the tool they must use. yet my peers & i persist in writing damned phone books for them. why? because it's too hard to actually write something that would help the user use your app.

with this knowledge i have to face work every morning ...

jeeeem spriggs on October 23, 2009 10:35 AM

Atwood, you should know better. It pisses me off that a supposed authority on programming says what you do.

Would you put a confirmation box on your program that says "You did not ask to delete all your data files, but if you press yes right now, all your files will be gone. I hope you are reading this."? I'm betting that you would, and then blame the user for having pressed yes on the box without reading.

You are blaming the user here for performing behavior that the user did not even ask for.

No, you are dead wrong on this.

I am decidedly a Windows guy, but you need to ask yourself "What would Apple do?" the next time you write anything that has to do with user interfaces.

gm on October 23, 2009 10:36 AM

Atwood, you should know better. It pisses me off that a supposed authority on programming says what you do.

Would you put a confirmation box on your program that says "You did not ask to delete all your data files, but if you press yes right now, all your files will be gone. I hope you are reading this."? I'm betting that you would, and then blame the user for having pressed yes on the box without reading.

You are blaming the user here for performing behavior that the user did not even ask for.

No, you are dead wrong on this.

I am decidedly a Windows guy, but you need to ask yourself "What would Apple do?" the next time you write anything that has to do with user interfaces.

gm on October 23, 2009 10:36 AM

I really hate it when formatting comes with paste to my text. I never use that function, but of course it has to be default. I have to use NotePad or specifically search for paste unformatted. And in writing email I never find paste unformatted.

By the way, did I mention that I really hate it when formatting comes with paste to my text? Well, here it goes: I really hate it when formatting comes with paste to my text.

Silvercode on October 23, 2009 10:38 AM

no pictures? I am not reading this... blah blah blah.. jk. gj!

Drew on October 23, 2009 10:38 AM

Asking the average computer user to follow your cumbersome (and counter intuitive) formatting rules is a prime example of stopping the user's proceeding with idiocy.

I assume this blog post was tounge-in-cheek and you're mearly poking fun at yourself.

Thanks.

Gregg on October 23, 2009 10:40 AM

I've asked a few Q's on SU and SO, but I've never noticed that "Formatting Reference" on the right :)

More often that not, your "Live View" is below the fold, and unless you know it's there, it's hard to spot.

Good article btw.

rm on October 23, 2009 10:50 AM

I'm a programmer with a long history of technical support. The first time I tried to post a question in Stack Overflow, it took me about half an hour to figure out how to use that #$%@!@ Markdown crap. To begin with, I had no idea why my formatting was being destroyed, and then when I found the 'explicit' instructions in the right hand area of the page (where I usually ignore the ads), they were, to my mind, quite obscure.

DougS on October 23, 2009 10:51 AM

oh no people aren't following my exacting instructions for post messages :(

cry more you worthless prick

Andrew on October 23, 2009 10:52 AM

Wow. Lot's of strong feelings here. Actually, I thought this post was pretty good and made me think about an often overlook problem in user interaction design. If you doubt that for minute, try searching the web for "windows vista popups" - you'll find some related rants, for sure!

The reason I was drawn to comment though was that I doubt SuperUser will be improved by creating a 'template' question for new users. If anything, it will create a flurry of questions that look like:

My [fill in your OS] keeps crashing. Help!
1. List Item
2. List Item
* Bullet Item
> Blockquote

Code sample line 1

DaveParillo on October 23, 2009 10:54 AM

There is a better The Far Side for what you want. Same panel except the dog is replaced with a cat. The top panel title is "What we say to cats". The speech bubble in the "what they hear" panel is completely empty.

Jeff, you apparently have never seen typical user Word documents. If they want to indent the first line of a paragraph, they type 5 spaces. If they want a blank line between paragraphs, they type a blank line. If they want to center text vertically, they add a bunch of blank lines in front of the text until it looks good. All those buttons and whatnot in the toolbar are meaningless noise. The menu with the name Format, meaningless. That's a tool these kinds of users use every day. Now you want this user to come to your website for the first time and understand how to format stuff when it isn't WYSIWYG?

I have a decent stackoverflow rep and I can never get the link format right the first time. Is it ()[] or []() and is it text before link or link before text? Of course I'm usually answering questions and the help text where the ads goes isn't even there for me see.

jmucchiello on October 23, 2009 10:54 AM

There is a better The Far Side for what you want. Same panel except the dog is replaced with a cat. The top panel title is "What we say to cats". The speech bubble in the "what they hear" panel is completely empty.

Jeff, you apparently have never seen typical user Word documents. If they want to indent the first line of a paragraph, they type 5 spaces. If they want a blank line between paragraphs, they type a blank line. If they want to center text vertically, they add a bunch of blank lines in front of the text until it looks good. All those buttons and whatnot in the toolbar are meaningless noise. The menu with the name Format, meaningless. That's a tool these kinds of users use every day. Now you want this user to come to your website for the first time and understand how to format stuff when it isn't WYSIWYG?

I have a decent stackoverflow rep and I can never get the link format right the first time. Is it ()[] or []() and is it text before link or link before text? Of course I'm usually answering questions and the help text where the ads goes isn't even there for me see.

jmucchiello on October 23, 2009 10:55 AM

I agree that the editing/previewing combination needs work, and that the sidebar goes largely unread. I'm intrigued that no one apart from Phenwoods has commented on the content of the sidebar text. There's room for improvement here, I think.

"How to Ask" could be deleted entirely.

"Is your question about computer software or computer hardware" isn't helpful. I'm inclined to answer with one of the choices: "My question is about computer software." But what does that mean?

"We prefer questions that can be answered, not just discussed" could be replaced with "Questions only, please! No discussions."

"If your question is about this website, ask it on meta instead" could be "Questions about this site? Ask on meta."

My point is that even if I start reading the sidebar, I'd probably stop. I'm reminded of something your friend Joel once wrote about a wordy dialog box on Juno.

Grushenkaman on October 23, 2009 10:56 AM

That Formatting Reference looks like it was written by a 6 year old.

"linebreak" should be "line break" or perhaps "line-break" since it is being used as a verb. It looks as if the "to linebreak" part is a continuation of the previous line reading "don't want colorization? use pre to linebreak use 2 spaces at end"

"> blockquote"? WTF?!?!

Dave on October 23, 2009 11:04 AM

Why are your insisting in "The root problem is lack of carriage returns between paragraphs, which is sort of a fairly accepted standard for net conversation .. just read the 20+ comments above yours. Notice a pattern?" It looks correct in input field. thats enough. (also in the input field it looks like eitehr carriage return or spaces, neither can be seen below.

offler on October 23, 2009 11:08 AM

Speaking as a professional graphic designer, typesetter, type fancier, and member of the last pre-desktop-computer generation, I feel compelled to point out that the skip-a-line method of separating paragraphs is a recent and unfortunate development. It arose out of e-mail, USENET, and other ASCII-based text unable to handle even the simplest formatting. Before that, in a practice still used in print (read any novel, for instance), paragraphs were demarcated visually by indenting the first line, and not by skipping lines, even when using a typewriter. However, on-line text boxes are too stupid—er, too limited in their capabilities to allow this method, so the alternative grew out of regrettable necessity. Also, so far as I can tell, most of the people who introduced this habit were engineers, whom I have noted, from years of experience with them, seem to treat the rules of written and spoken English in a rather cavalier fashion.

DB on October 23, 2009 11:14 AM

Wow. Lots of nasty comments. The premise of the post is correct: that people ignore just about everything. And we all have supendous examples.

The example is weak, however. What it really shows is how huge the gap can be between first time user and even a seasoned UI developer.

Its weakness is that it has its own paradigm and conventions that every first time user could not reasonably be expected to get right without plenty of care, time, reading and investigation. Once (if) they start to wonder what colorization or backticks are you've likely lost them. It's obvious to you, Jeff, but not all users. Therein lies the problem, and it is not easy to solve!

Ian on October 23, 2009 11:19 AM

Blame the user for bad software. Stop wasting your time trying to train everyone and just have the question look the same as what the user typed in the format they typed it in.

Jeff on October 23, 2009 11:29 AM

There is no technical solution for a user not caring.

You've gotten around it by instituting User editing. Without it, the trilogy sites would be unbearable to navigate and would resemble all the other programming forums on the internet.

George on October 23, 2009 11:30 AM

I'm a user -- why is it wrong for me to assume that what I input is what will actually be ultimately displayed?

I'm a developer -- I've created this awesome piece of software. Why is it that, regardless of instructions or help or walkthroughs or whatever one might come up with to 'assist' users, the users never use the software 'right'?

The bottom line is, whatever users do with software IS right.

Taking the issue at hand, the solution is a WYSIWYG text input. Forget the preview: there's nothing indicating that's an actual preview and even if there was, in fat bold undelined letters, the user is focused on the input box, that's what he/she sees, nothing else. In fact, that fancy toolbar is for 'advanced' users.

pcrispim on October 23, 2009 11:31 AM

People aren't understanding (or possibly even reading) how to use your web site. Your options are:

1. Leave the site the same, and blog about how users are myopic/dumb/some-other-negative-adjective.
2. Change the site to make it easier to use.

Which option results in a better web site? Which results in more respect for you, rather than less?

Singlestone on October 23, 2009 11:33 AM

No only do users not read anything they don't have to, it is naive of us to expect them to do otherwise.

Heck, I didn't even bother to read the rest of the comments to see if this point had already been made!

If you're truly concerned about how your site is used, I suggest usability testing (see useit.com for many ways to do this on the cheap).

Steven A. Lowe on October 23, 2009 11:37 AM

"..this particular asker, who, apparently, was totally satisfied with obviously broken formatting..."

So... was there actually an issue here if the user was apparently totally satisfied?

Say you sell a fine piece of precision machinery to the user, who uses it as a hammer to put up a picture. You both win, and leave it at that.

On the topic of cognitive dissonance, why is the entry in a fixed-width font and the preview text in a proportional font? Looks like it's the case here too. Is this a best practice?

keith on October 23, 2009 11:38 AM

Dog pile!

I'm going to have to agree with the folk who think that the original text looked just fine.

Question: Why is it that WYSIWYG is universal in application programming land but an alien concept in web page land? As an application developer I am continuously both infuriated and amazed by the ridiculous work arounds employed by web developers.

A preview area? Really? Is this what we're doing now? This is the state of the art? Is flash unable to solve this problem for you? Is fancy-pants super-dynamic HTML powerless? Do we need to break out the old java applet framework?

I don't need a manual down the side of my screen explaining something that I've been able to do in every word processor since about 1984. If you can't do a decent editor at least give me plain text and get out of my way.

Ok, rant over.. back to real work.

AdderTheBlack on October 23, 2009 11:46 AM

How about if, by default, markdown is switched off, along with the preview pane.

Users who don't currently see anything other than what they're typing will get exactly what they type, without any fancy formatting. So the example above will work just fine.

Users who see the markdown button can press it to turn on the toolbar and preview pane. The site will remember this for future visits.

Does this not give the best of both worlds?

Steve M on October 23, 2009 11:48 AM

I think you should hire a user usability expert to re-design the foundation of your site series. Then you should charge your users so that you can recover all the money you blew on the usability expert.

This backlash is SOP. Google recently got it by making the search bar bigger. Microsoft also with the new MSDN. I received backlash from customers when I changed the font on a web application from Times New Roman to Verdana. “Please change it back, it hurts my eyes” - That is a direct user quote.

Hopefully you’ll get enough positive feedback that this issue drops off the radar.

Coov on October 23, 2009 11:51 AM

There was a recent study that came to the conclusion that users will ignore sidebar advertisements and anything that *looks* like advertisements. The negative space just makes it look separated from the site and therefore an ad.

Nick C on October 23, 2009 11:52 AM

The user wants to do things their way; you want them to do it your way.

CynicalTyler on October 23, 2009 11:58 AM

Here it is on my screen. When I view the page, the box is so far down I can't see it without scrolling down like I have done in this screen shot.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7552/32116531.gif

Second of all, I'm a programmer those instructions suck. Good luck getting a non technical users to make sense of them.

Jacob on October 23, 2009 11:59 AM

The problem i see is two-fold. First, users are not going to do what you want, are not going to read your help text, and do not care to learn Markdown or anything other than the answer to their specific question. Second, YOU are expecting users to care about what you care about.

You can not change the first, but you can change the second.

bill on October 23, 2009 12:03 PM

"More and more, I'm thinking we need to put the formatting help -- for new users only -- directly in their line of sight."

It only means you still didn't get it. Life is short and user don't have time to read your formatting help, Joe's formatting help, my formatting help, etc.

You have unrealistic demands, flawed UI, you have a problem, not a user.

Did user use one, single formatting _layout_ code? No --> this means you should add at the beginning and at the end implicit . Yes --> don't add it.

Problem (with your site, not with user) solved.

macias on October 23, 2009 12:03 PM

There's a really, really simple solution to this problem: Treat the user's Return or Enter key as the end of a line or paragraph. Just like every word processing program on God's green earth.

Most Content Management Systems bone-headedly persist in using body text with breaks rather than paragraph markers - HTML styles exist for a reason, and there's no reason any text should not have a style instead of using the default body style.

Daniel Knight on October 23, 2009 12:11 PM

You fail at understanding usability when you:

- Design a system that goes against known conventions, which is either WYSIWYG or plain text (which in essence is also WYSIWYG)

- Have to provide a "preview panel" just to show how things would look

- Require a sidebar full of cryptic comments to explain how to enter a bloody question. Even worse is to place it in the ad section

- Blaming it all on user myopia, completely failing to recognize that users do not care and do not have time to learn your website. Usability rule #1: users spend most time on other websites, not yours. They expect things to work the same everywhere. Users are not stupid or lazy, instead you failed at this design task.

- Come up with a solution that makes it even worse: placing the help that users do not want and should not need in an editable area.

- Have read and even recommend the book "Don't make me think", yet still fail at all of the above

StackOverflow rocks, and is in many ways very usable. However, you are way off in this particular case. The other commenters only support that.

Ferdy on October 23, 2009 12:14 PM

In case anyone missed it, John Gruber (created markdown) has responded to this blog post. he says

"I never intended for it [Markdown] to be used by people who don’t actually know the Markdown formatting rules. I created Markdown for my own use, and, well, I know the formatting rules pretty well.

For use in situations like user-submitted comments, GitHub Flavored Markdown is a superior variant. It changes just three rules from regular Markdown, all of which make for a better set of formatting rules for people who don’t even know the rules."


These changes to the formatting rules would have pretty well eliminated the issues with Atwood's example.

Breton on October 23, 2009 12:18 PM

This post reminds me of a South Park.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104226/

Priest 1: We've got to stop these boys from going to the public!
Priest 2: Yes, they've got to learn to keep their mouths shut!
Father Maxi: Right and so… Wait a minute, what?
Priest 3: Yes, but we need to find out why these children are suddenly finding it necessary to report that they're being molested.

Eugene Kaganovich on October 23, 2009 12:32 PM

I remember contributing to the discussion about what editor to use for Stackoverflow.com, and giving WYSIWYG a +1. It's such a shame that Markdown got chosen over something like FCK - when you force a user to read a formatting guide just to post a damn question, you know you've let them down. Users aren't idiots, nor are they myopic; they're guided by the UI presented to them and if they aren't doing what you want them to, then it's your code and layout that need to change, not them. Suggesting otherwise (and I'm talking about your comments above, Jeff, not the original article text) is insulting and smacks of egotism.

Dave on October 23, 2009 12:36 PM

I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong.
Any text input field where line breaks are ignored is just broken and unbelievably dumb.
No amount of geeky, confusing small print will cure that.

If I were a user there, I'd maybe read the instructions, go "WTF," and either go away, or just keep typing the way I was, boycotting your proposed solution. Because it's unacceptable.

Using two spaces at the end for line breaks is a very, very bad idea: I can't even SEE if I've put those two spaces in or not!

And then there's the thing about the way the instructions are worded. No sentences, no punctuation. "don't want colorization? use to linebreak use two spaces at end > blockquote." What belongs together here? For a full ten seconds, I thought you had to use "" for linebreaks. By the way, is "linebreak" even a verb?

I enjoy reading your blog because it explains how to program for humans. Not in this case. Not in this case at all.

PUIZ András on October 23, 2009 12:37 PM

Oh, and you could have stripped HTML more gracefully from this bit, too.
Something's clearly broken here.
You can blame the users, or try to fix what needs to be fixed.
Your choice.

PUIZ András on October 23, 2009 12:40 PM

Jeff, you're not doing so bad. A little wisdom from Alan Cooper:

"Perpetual intermediates know how to use reference materials. They are motivated to dig deeper and learn, as long as they don't have to tackle too much at once. This means online help is a perpetual intermediate tool…

"Your product's code must provide for both rank amateurs and all the possible cases an expert might encounter. Don't let this technical requirement influence your design thinking. Yes, you must provide [advanced] features for expert users. Yes, you must provide support for beginners. But in most cases, you must apply the bulk of your talents, time, and resources to designing for the perpetual intermediates."

(from About Face 3, the end of Chapter 3: "Beginners, Experts, and Intermediates")

Patrick McElhaney on October 23, 2009 12:44 PM

There are so many different standards, and your website is not the center of my universe.

Yesterday, I posted an answer on Stackoverflow. And I correctly used markdown to highlight words. I could, of course, see the "realtime" rendering as I typed. It looked like I was a pro.

Today, I posted a comment to the same answer. My fingers automatically reverted to BBcode markup. Comments have no "realtime" preview, just a character countdown. Moments after posting, I saw the formatting problems. Looked like I was a rube.

Why?

* Because I _can_ type in anyone of half-a-dozen toy markup languages

* I do not spend all day on one site, so don't always default to the markup that site requires

* Stackoverflow has an inconsistent interface that shows be previews of one type of text box, but not of another

* Stackoverflow gave me no way of recovering from my false starts (comments may be editable, but not by low-reps like me)

Sunanda on October 23, 2009 12:52 PM

When you're a real developer, a software developer, you don't need to waste some time thinking about what they're gonna look or not, that's for web programmers...

Jinwe on October 23, 2009 1:03 PM

On my netbook, the preview is off the screen.

Pete Kirkham on October 23, 2009 1:13 PM

There is no silver bullet for this sort of thing. The best you can hope is to gather data and refine, refine, refine. May I suggest A/B testing? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/B_testing)

Brent Rockwood on October 23, 2009 1:14 PM

Never try and teach a user to think. It wastes your time and annoys the user.

ThatGuyInTheBack on October 23, 2009 1:16 PM

Why don't you just make it a 2 step process?
Step 1 - enter question
Step 2 - confirm question (as it will be shown on the website)

Frank on October 23, 2009 1:25 PM

Jeff,

You blame your users for disregarding your instructions. Yet you disregard the overwhelming crowd telling you that you are doing things the wrong way. Look back at the comic strip you posted earlier. Is it really your users that is the dog or is it yourself?

Blaming your users do not make you wise, it makes you stubborn and arrogant. If you do have a problem of users repeatedly making the same error (which you obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't have made this post) then please, do deal with it.

You've previously praised the Pareto Principle for being an excellent method of dealing with programming errors. Instead of limiting it to programming, why not apply them to your own human errors? If your users have issues with spelling, as many people do these days, do you penalize the user? or do install a spell checker?

While it's certainly true that users do split up paragraphs with two line breaks, lists aren't paragraphs. No-one (not even you) would break up a list like that.

There's an age-old saying. It reads: "The customer is always right". If you do not accommodate for your users, they will take their business elsewhere.

Andy on October 23, 2009 1:25 PM

How about this:

"It looks like you've started a list. Would you like our automatic electronic monkeys to format that for you?"

Etc.

The book _Don't Make Me Think_ comes to mind, too.

commons on October 23, 2009 1:38 PM

@Andy - what business? This is a free site.

Frankly, screw the user. If they can't be bothered to take five seconds to read what's right in front of their faces, why should we bother to care about their problems?

Jim on October 23, 2009 1:43 PM

The "How to Ask" section looks like ads and/or is in the space that ads would be.

ps: smart idea would be, if there is no formating tags present, toss some pre tags around the whole post.

Anonymous on October 23, 2009 1:49 PM

Jeff,

I think you made the right choice going with Markdown. WYSIWYG editors are heavy-handed and difficult to use if you are after very precise markup. Markdown, I think, gives one the best input-to-output turnaround experience if the you are willing to follow a few simple rules.

Also, you don't want to be in the business of allowing users to potentially violate the layout of your site with improperly formed HTML.

Another thing I believe is that most users DO follow your instructions on how to use Markdown. I've found the instructions to be very intuitive. There will always be a small portion of users who do not read any instruction at all. Please don't mistake those people for the majority. Remember, the majority is silent in this case because the paradigm works for them without any problems.

Chad on October 23, 2009 1:50 PM

@Jim,

As for what business, there's this: http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/10/introducing-stack-overflow-careers

-- (I hope that was an acceptable horizontal rule)

The attitude of Jeff's post and especially his comments and this thread is one of contempt for his users. The users who are providing content that makes his website something anybody gives a damn about. I might consider that a firable offense.

Joel and Jeff are certainly sending some interesting signals about their relationship with their readers/user/content providers.

John McG on October 23, 2009 1:52 PM

I'd put an animation of Shakira where you'd like the users to look...

Steve on October 23, 2009 1:56 PM

Jeff,

Stop trying to defend your poor design choices and just accept the obvious. People are having trouble with the markdown editor. Embrace the opportunity to improve! Drop the ego! Markdown was just fine for a programming audience because programmers love to discover new things and they're very detail oriented. Everyone else just wants to write a damned question or answer and get on with their life. Seriously, if they go:

1. this
2. that

...isn't it pretty obvious they wanted to make a damned list? Is your choice markdown just dogma now?

Please, for goodness sake, stop treating the users like they're dumb. They just have more important things to do with their day.

- Scott W.

Scott W. on October 24, 2009 2:31 AM

"Line break is 2 spaces at line end"? How WYSIWYG is that Jeff?
Can you see my 2 spaces ;-) ?

Come on - get a real editor please.

DoomProof on October 24, 2009 2:36 AM

I know what you mean. Know of the MMO game project Infinity? Never mind. It's not really important, what's important is that it has an online forum where you can go to discuss the development and the game to be. And in one thread the topic of tutorials came up. Many were in favor of an elaborate story based tutorial, some were thinking little unobtrusive hints popping up much like the Windows notifications.
I, having seen and knowing full well even intelligent players would simply ignore these when playing the game, and then 5 seconds later ask me how to play. (annoying me to no end) Instantly thought of something far more dramatic. I made a mockup with an old prototype screenshot. The idea was to pause the game, cover the screen in a dark overlay with very few, very large and very simple instructions so that even if you were to instantly skip it you would still have taken in the information. Unignorable. Occuring only when you would have to do the relevant action. Ensuring users wouldn't get bored reading too much.
Left 4 Dead has already employed, with some success a similar scheme. The game doesn't get paused, but you can't miss the messages as they cover a large part of the playable screen space. The result is I haven't once experienced a new player coming into the game asking how to play. I think video games are ahead in communicating with users because failure to do so is much more critical to the gameplay experience, of other players too, than say someone not quite getting the formatting right on a QA website.

BmB on October 24, 2009 3:18 AM

You'll have to take your hat off, Jeff. As about 90% of the other comments say, your site should adapt to the mental image the users have of how it *should* work, not the other way around.
I mean, StackOverflow is great, and I have a bit of rep, but I haven't ever noticed the "help" on the right, either. And I find the buttons WAY un-intuitive, so I just try to edit my comments Wikipedia-style. And I haven't ever known about that "two-spaces before newline" stuff. Seriously, WTF???

Joe Pineda on October 24, 2009 3:19 AM

They would just wipe out the pre-entered text and write their stuff.

That's how users are. That's how they "work".

shaharyar on October 24, 2009 3:34 AM

Commentator "Ferdy" (above), nails it completely. Jeff, I do think you're arguing the wrong side in this case. The user shouldn't have to make any effort, the developer should.

You know that better than most - time to fire up the IDE again I think.

Jonathan Hollin on October 24, 2009 3:56 AM

Why did you have to put my question as an example? So what I didn't use a return character when I was typing in my question - am I evil? I guess all I was trying to do was ask a complex question that took a lot of thought to describe it in a meaningful way. Formatting was the lest of my concerns - asking the question to convey the issues was the real difficulty that I was struggling with. After this embarrassment I can't see myself ever getting on asking another question - Experts Exchange for me now :(

Barakando on October 24, 2009 5:37 AM

All good points in your post Jeff.

One more into the mix: Jacob Nielsen's F-pattern for reading web content. http://www.useit.com/alertbox/reading_pattern.html

Tough choice on the trade-off? I know the form is the central function of that page, but if you really want to get people to read the instruction, the research suggests you have to move it to a hotspot.

I'd only say its worth changing if a significant portion (15%+) are getting it wrong...

Neil Fenwick on October 24, 2009 5:53 AM

"we've provided a handy formatting quick reference"

I think you should redo the part starting from at "> blockquote" and finishing by "foo". Maybe it's because english is not my first language, but I can't guess what the fuck is meant there.

Arkh on October 24, 2009 6:30 AM

A couple of previous commenters have mentioned Joel so, straight from page 6 of "User Interface Design From Programmers" by Joel Spolsky:

"Thus, the cardinal axiom of all user interface design: 'A user interface is well designed when the program behaves exactly how the user thought it would.'"

Markdown might be acceptable for StackOverflow but I wonder how the many StackExchange sites are coping with it?

Colin on October 24, 2009 7:00 AM

Correction: "User Interface Design for Programmers" is the correct title

Colin on October 24, 2009 7:02 AM

Jeff, It's time to respond to the overwhelming hordes that feel you got this wrong. I'm one of them if only for the approach and tone of your post.

retrospect on October 24, 2009 7:03 AM

The main issue I believe is that the text you type gets rendered differently from when you type it.

So Jeff, in your image where you blacked out the parts you think the users do not see, I would also add the preview part. A lot of users may be typing on smaller screens, including netbooks, and the preview might be just too far down the page to see. Or even larger screens, but since the comment input is at the bottom of the page the user might not have scrolled down all the way.

Also, when typing you might not be constantly checking the preview, you might do that once and then forget later, because it looks OK in the input field.

The best way to address the problem would be to make the output appear exactly as how it appears in the input box.

If that's not possible, a possibility would be to pop up the preview once the user clicks submit so that it effectively becomes the only thing you see, with a shading Javascript effect to make it even more obvious, and ask them to confirm or edit.

JRL on October 24, 2009 7:58 AM

WHAT THE USER DOES SEE: The Formatting Toolbar

Or at least what looks like the formatting toolbar. As soon as the user sees this, he probably assumes this is a rich text/WYSIWYG editor, and thus assumes the question should display as typed. When the preview doesn't look right, the user probably assumes the website is broken. While that is a wrong assumption, it still gives the user a negative impression of the site that could have been avoided.

Take out the toolbar, and then it's just a text box. A gloriously simple text box. And how should one format text in a simple text box... who knows! But at that point either the user doesn't care and will just type, or then he might go looking for a pink help button or some instructions near the text box.

I think it's less about User Myopia and more about leading the end user. The toolbar is misleading.

Now onto everyone else's comments:

+1 "What's the benefit of ignoring single carriage returns?"
+1 "The point of 'Teaching Users to Read' is not to teach users to read, but that you should design UI so they don’t have to."
+1 "if one person tell you that you drink to much you can ignore it, if you hear it again, you should think about it. If 3 people tell you that you need to consult a doctor."
-1 "'How do we treat user myopia? How do we reach these users?'
By irritating them until they either stop being lazy and learn to read, or get so irritated that they leave us alone." -- the goal of most websites is not to drive people away.

Poindexter on October 24, 2009 8:04 AM

@jmucchiello
"If they want to center text vertically, they add a bunch of blank lines in front of the text until it looks good."

I'm pretty computer literate and have been using Word since Word for MS-DOS and every version since, and I had no idea there was another way to center text vertically. I just looked it up in Word 2007 help, and there it is! Wow, I did not know that.

However, I still think I will just add a bunch of blank lines as that is still easier that looking for that goofy setting. :)

Poindexter on October 24, 2009 8:12 AM

[captcha failed about 9 times in a row; audio doesn't play either...]

The formatting reference is no clearer than the formatted text in the screen capture. I had to reread parts of it three times before it occurred to me that its structure is a point-form list of sentence fragments. After rereading it in detail, I'm still not sure what some of it means.

Maybe users don't read stuff that's hard to read, even if it's short. One might consider getting some graphic design and copywriting help.

Michael Zajac on October 24, 2009 8:38 AM

Remind me not to rent a car from you. This isn't 1975. People have been using text editors and web sites for years now. When you present someone with a car with the steering wheel controlling the throttle, the transmission lever controlling the direction of the front wheels, the accelerator pedal controlling the gear shift and so on, don't be surprised when they have trouble pulling out of the lot safely.

There are widely acknowledged, well known user interface conventions that lots of people are familiar with. Show some respect. You don't require your users to use an object-verb-subject version of English so they sound like Yoda, don't require them to learn a new way of interacting.

Kaleberg on October 24, 2009 8:39 AM

But the user DID format their text. Just not the way you wanted the user to.

Users know by now not to press unless they want to make a paragraph break, so let them do what's natural: Let the mark a paragraph. That simple. If a user doesn't want to use automatic numbering and bullets, don't fret. Let them do what they want. If a user presses , consider it a paragraph and display a blank line in between the two paragraphs. That'll handle 90% of the issues.

For example, if a user types:

I have a problem and I don't know what to do.
Here's a breakdown of the issues:
1. This is my problem
2. This is another issue.
3. This is my other issue.

Instead of formatting as:

I have a problem and I don't know what to do. Here's a breakdown of the issues: 1. This is my problem 2. This is another issue. 3. This is my other issue.

Format it as:

I have a problem and I don't know what do do.

Here's a breakdown of the issues:

1. This is my problem

2. This is another issue.

3. This is my other issue.

After all, you allow for absolutely no formatting in this website even though it attracts extremely sophisticated users.

David W. on October 24, 2009 9:49 AM

Maybe if you had a Clippy character written in JavaScript who could make some encouraging MarkDown recommendations when the user bollocks up the layout? That would be way better than the pink button.

Hugh Brown on October 24, 2009 9:50 AM

Have you considered placing the "How to Ask" and "Formatting Reference" on the lefthand side, and then swapping the "Editting Area" to be at the bottom, thereby placing the "Formatted Area" at the top ?

I've never thought the current setup was bad, yet I believe the above configuration would be better.


White lettering on a Blue background for the "Editting Area" would subliminally suggest "Blueprint" to the user.
Re-colouring the background of "How to Ask" to a Redish-Orange would have the virtue of stating a fact instead of making a suggestion.


Cheers,

Ande on October 24, 2009 10:21 AM

I'll have to agree here. From the screenshots the help isn't really drawing my eyes, for one thing, the formatting reference should be more plain in it's use of language so it is more reader friendly. Secondly it should be right next to the input field and

nowhere else

at all.
It needs to look like it's attached to it even.

Thirdly, your markup is completely messed. If it doesn't treat the input the way it was given the input, that is to say you type a line break character but no line break is a result, then that is one hell of a massive usability failure. In fact if you want lists to be properly formatted I say take a hint from Word 2007, which can recognize when you are typing
1. list item
2. list item
3. list item
and make a properly formatted list from it.

BmB on October 24, 2009 10:40 AM

As a new user of StackOverflow, I didn't notice the preview area because I couldn't see it.

My thought processes:

1 I'm not allowed to upvote. My reputation isn't high enough. Hmm, I don't have any questions, I'm just browsing the site. Is there a question I can answer?

2 I found a question. Although my name is at the top of the page, I don't seem to be logged in. Hassle with incredibly poor U. I. of OpenID because I bought in to the myth (learned through podcasts) that it is somehow easier than just creating an account on this website.

3 Oh, it wants me to type something before it will let me proceed. I type my answer and go back to my actual task: trying to upvote someone else's answer that I I think is good. (but I can't since I don't have the reputation, and I can't build reputation unless I'm logged in, and I can't log in until I answer a question.)

Finally, my point: I'd swear that the WYSWIG box was scrolled off the bottom of my screen.
But the real reason I didn't notice it was because, in my context, it was about 5 levels down from what I was actually trying to do.

It it was scrolled off the bottom, it isn't a surprise I didn't hunt for it - I had no reason to believe it existed.

Now you, with your expert knowledge of the site, your reputation, and your established log in don't see any of these problems, so it isn't surprising it doesn't occur to you to solve them.

David Phillip Oster on October 24, 2009 11:56 AM

I just added Markdown to comments on a site, so this doesn't make me feel good about the effort getting actually used.

Firstly, I agree on the dual points that 1) you should have darkened the preview in the "what the user sees" shot, because he clearly didn't look at the preview and 2) if this is a problem, you need a WYSIWYG solution. Nothing wrong with that. Markdown is *not* WYS.

Secondly, what about a warning when questions are obviously devoid of formatting? Can we agree that just ignoring single newlines the author obviously included is really unintuitive for most users? At the least, we should ask if this is what they really meant, before posting.

Calvin Spealman on October 24, 2009 12:12 PM

Well, I certainly hope that you'll take all these comments under consideration even though I doubt you'll bother to read them (that includes this very one too).

While I agree that users don't read anything on the screen, there are conventions that your applications must honor, otherwise the user will hate it.

What happens when a set of common known conventions is gone? Take switchng from a Mac to a PC. Suddenly all key combinations, menus, buttons etc are completely different, and you are unable to perform at full capacity.

Of course, given the time, you'll manage to master the differences and become compatible with both OSes. That's the only exception to the rule I can think of.

Imagine if any of the popular top 5 websites didn't honor any of those conventions and required you to RTFM before you could do anything useful with them. No go, even for Google & Microsoft. Agreed, they have extra features that most people don't know about and it's not always obvious how to learn about them, but they at least offer a minimum level of comfort by honoring those conventions.

As it seems, even when the user is aware that he's not using a WYSIWYG editor (Markdown is NOT WYSIWYG) he at least expects the Enter key to change the line.


PS. On a side note, StumbleUpon suffered from the same problem; you had to add a tag to perform a line break. Finally, after an update that came out a few days ago they honor the Enter key.

Mitsaras on October 24, 2009 12:44 PM

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