Ha! Didn't you write some time ago that *every system manually built* must have a Raptor 10k drive? :-)

Sure. If it was *my* machine I'd absolutely have a Raptor as the boot drive, no question.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000800.html

But $165 (and that's the price only after rebate, which is also annoying) is a lot to swallow for many folks.

Like I said, feel free to swap parts between the three configurations to taste, or add parts of your own. They're just recommendations.

I notice that you didn't include the price of the OS!? Was it free?

Great series, Jeff!!

"But in the meantime, if this peaked your interest"

Shouldn't it be "piqued" instead of peaked?

The main downside of the NSK4400 case is that you're unable to cool your hard drives. The big brother of the NSK4400, the NSK6000, has 2 mounting places for 92mm casefans in front of the HDD cage. It costs only 20 euros more, so if you're looking for a nice looking case with enough space I think you should buy a NSK6000. I bought one back in May, and uploaded some pictures: http://tweakers.net/gallery/80211/fotoalbum/?MapID=7616

Graphics cards come with 768 MB of memory onboard now? Wow, I'm behind the times lol

Why recomend the E6600? The Q6600 is down to $266 if you know where to look, and the new E6850 is now the same price.

Thanks for documenting this adventure, I found it to be interesting and highly informative. And I am planning to build my own PC pretty soon. I think I might disregard the overclocking process though, I am sure I will find some way to screw that up :)

Thanks again!

Are there vista drivers 32 and or 64 bit for the audio on the mother board?

Great series, Could you comment a bit on how (looking at newegg) you can make sure the various components work with each other. In particular the mother board/ memory/ processor.

ahem don't mind me but don't you think it is CHEAPER to buy the darn PC?

Thanks again for the good article. Now for Building a PC Part V... getting the wife to agree...

Great series. I'm starting to get the urge to build another PC but wanted to try something different. Have you ever tried building a mini-itx system? I'm thinking of a small one just for email etc.

Jeff,

Thanks for the list!! This is great! Would this list be something that you could keep updated say every two months. I'm resolved to build my own computer next time and enjoy the parts list from a non-gamer. Most likely I'll be building another computer in 2 months, but that two months could turn into 4 or 6, by which time the list above would change. Knowing a list exists (like Scott H's tools list) out there would be a GREAT resource!!!

Regards,
Tim

Any recommendations for good monitors? For a 3 screen set up do you do a wide screen in the middle and two traditionals on the sides?

Dump the 680i for a P35 board.

Yes, 'piqued', not 'peaked'.

I can't believe you'd recommend the Sonata case. Just plug "sonata power supply problems" into Google and you'll see immediately why that's a poor choice.

Antec makes great cases, but I think the PSUs in the Sonata cases must be the factory rejects.

More on piqued:

http://nih.blogspot.com/2003/06/im-sorry-i-have-to-say-this.html

No worries about the OS. Just buy it from my town's local computer shop. You will get pirated copies of Windows & Office for no extra charge.

Thanks for the run down of packages to choose from. I am currently in the midst of trying to figure out what to buy for a new PC (mine is near unbearable now). And I have have the equipment, I really need the PS, MBD+CPU, Cooler, and memory --- and your basic listing is perfect and within my budget!

Thanks for the list...if nothing else it is a GREAT starting point for my research. I've never been an overclocker but the entire series was great to read. Thanks!

> But $165 (and that's the price only after rebate, which is also annoying) is a lot to swallow for many folks.

A "craftsman" who won't spring for an additional $45 (vs the $120 drive) should probably rethink his "passion."

I think the comparison to chefs visiting farms is instructive, if a bit off base. A better analogy would be for a programmer to assemble his *software* stack from scratch. That will expose him to filesystems, device drivers, compiling the OS, etc. Naturally, this means no Windows or OS X. But a programmer who can't navigate the oldest OS family around has a serious hole in his knowledge.

>A "craftsman" who won't spring for an additional $45 (vs the $120 drive) should probably rethink his "passion."

It's not just 45 dollars extra, you are giving up 45 dollars and 350GB of storage. Most "craftsmen" as you put it can't get by for long with only 150GB of storage. That means the REAL cost of buying a raptor is 45 dollars PLUS the cost of another drive.

Fixed peaked/piqued.

> A "craftsman" who won't spring for an additional $45 (vs the $120 drive)

Yes, but to be fair, the $120 drive isn't just cheaper-- it also offers almost 3.3x the storage, too.

> What about OS?

Just install a copy of OS X! But seriously, I recommend OEM licenses; Vista Home Premium OEM is around $120.

I saw the same difference between the memory scores on Vista 32 vs. 64. I'd get a 5.8 on 64-bit Vista and a 5.3 running 32-bit using the same 4 x 1GB Corsair XMS2 (DDR2-800) with no clock tweaks other than to set the mobo voltage and timings to the Corsair specs (4-4-4-12 @ 2.1v). Really strange.

I had to give up on Vista 64 because I couldn't find any drivers for my TV/FM card (that I stole from my 'retired' media center PC and which Vista 32 picked up on first boot). Going to 32 meant I could't access all 4GB of my RAM so I suspect that probably has something to do with the difference.

My quad build: MSI P6N Diamond mobo (on-board X-Fi audio), Intel Q6600 (o/c to 2.8 GHz), 4x1GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 RAM, 150 GB Raptor (system), 2x 500GB Barracudas (RAID-0 for data drives), Zalman 9700 CPU HSF, 2x MSI-NX8600GTS-T2D256E-OC vid cards (great cards for us triple-head junkies, I use 2 20.1" Dells to bracket a 24" Dell Widescreen), 2x Lite-on 20x DVD Burners (IDE), one used AVerMedia TV/FM card, and a Cooler Master RS-850 PSU stuffed into an Antec Nine-Hundred case (I wish I'd have gone with the P182 though, that beasty non-modular PSU was a PITA to install and keep the cable routing tidy).

And yes, it does sound a bit like a Harrier Jet (10 fans in all), but it stays nice and cool and that's what my 7.1 speaker setup is for anyway...

Is the E6300 a type for the E6320 or do you really mean the E6300? :)

typo. The irony..

To answer some of the CPU choice questions-- remember, when overclocking, you do NOT want chips that use a natively high bus speed. You'll be turning up the bus speed as part of your overclocking.

Unless you like buying really, really expensive memory...

I'm surprised you recommended the EVGA 680i motherboard, given the huge number of problems these boards had when they first came out about 8 months ago. One would hope that these have been sorted out by now - though I don't know that they have. I think this is a poor choice and you can do much better if you're serious about building a quality system - the P5N32 or the Striker boards come to mind.

The motherboard is not a component you want to skimp on quality if you're going to overclock your system.

Thanks for the series! It has motivated me to build a new system to replace my aging laptop. The last system I built was an S100 bus system with a 4Mhz Z80...so it's been a while! I used you're configuration as a base but changed some of the components to fit my own requirements (and budget). Regardless, I now have in the mail an MSI P6N Platinum, Intel Q6600, 4GB (Crucial 4x1GB), two 500 GB Samsung HDs for RAID 1, dual EVGA 7600GT graphics cards and two new ACER 1920x1200 monitors for just over $2000. I don't play any games, so I cut costs on the graphics card...I hope I don't regret it.

Aaron G: The Antec Sonata III is configured with an EarthWatts 500 PSU. Since I just purchased one, I'm hoping that the power supply problems are now resolved with the new unit.

'Graphics cards come with 768 MB of memory onboard now? Wow, I'm behind the times lol' -- ditto, sir; I thought 64 MB was decent...

'Most "craftsmen" as you put it can't get by for long with only 150GB of storage.' -- In the words of the neanderthal, "uhhhh -what!?!?" ONLY 150 GB? You're either collecting DVD-quality footage of every single comeback-tour there ever was, or sequencing the human genome, or both...

I am both saddened and shocked that what passes for quality these days is thinly-veiled quantity.

Nice series nonetheless. I am always amused by the squeemish squeels of 'just buy it'.

Unfortunately I do not get to build my new work PC but I do get to spec it out. We are getting Dell M390's for development and to suuport multiple VM's simultaneouly.

The Primary specs are:
Q6600 processor
4x1GB Ram
2x 146GB 15,000 RPM SAS (I did not choose the drives. I am not positive of the performance increase we will see in comparison to the Raptor 150GB 10,000 rpm SATA which is available from DELL as well). I am quite sure however that we will pay the cost with a loder machine as well as a higher price tag.

Great series Jeff!

I've been following it closely as I'm about ready to spring for a desktop. Rumors of a redesigned 24" iMac have kept me from building a PC, but then I went back and read your plug of the triple monitor setup which had me quite interested in that avenue. So now I'm curious what monitors you would recommend? I guess an all widescreen setup would be a bad idea because you lose a lot of vertical space. Any comments would be much appreciated.

Might I also suggest Ars Technica's System Guide? It's usually pretty good and updated every few months.

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200706.ars

Simon, I prefer Tech Report's system guide:

http://www.techreport.com/etc/2007q3/system-guide-0707/index.x?pg=1

Although my list is a bit different fom both of those sources; I think you should invest in the system core, even in a budget system: motherboard, case, and memory.

I would recommend this Lian-Li case (I'm a happy owner of one myself) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112059. It's a bit pricier, but well worth it. It's not made of cheap plastic like the Antec cases. Inside panels are insulated with sound-absorbing foam, and the air flow is maximized to keep the system cool. I also like how they made the HD compartment.

Jeff

Why the change from the Scotts MSI MoBo and Graphics?

Which of the "PC quieting magic" steps did you end up doing for Scott's rig, Jeff? Did you end up changing the configuration of the fans included with the P182 case?

Hi, Jeff. I'm not sure if I have the whole story or not, but as for the mobo change from the MSI in Scott's build to the EVGA 680i (Model # 122-CK-NF63-TR), it looks like quad core overclocking is a little squirrely on the EVGA. I'm building a system myself now, and was going to order the MSI P6N that you used in Hanselman's build, when I changed it to the EVGA mobo after reading this post. I just received the EVGA mobo, and it has printed on the back of the box that quad core overclocking is not supported. After a bit of googling, it seems that this revision of the board was succeeded by an updated (and slightly pricier) version that does support quad core overclocking. I'm not sure if a bios update can fix this, as I got conflicting info from a little searching. Hope this helps.

About the memory score issue:

I didn't see where you actually tuned the memory timings. Doing so on my box maxed my score to 5.9 on 32 bit Vista.

Here's a link that does a pretty good job of explaining the various memory timings, and a quick Google will find you plenty of community support for tweaking memory timings on your particular system:

http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/AMD/memory/131

In addition to tightening the "big 4" (CAS, tRCD, tRP, tRAS), getting memory that runs at 1T Command Rate (Command Per Clock) instead of 2T has made significantly dramatic improvements on my system.

As usual, be very careful and do your research and test, test, test, because it's very easy to destabilize your system with the wrong settings.

> I didn't see where you actually tuned the memory timings. Doing so on my box maxed my score to 5.9 on 32 bit Vista.

The original "low" Windows Experience memory score of 5.3 has nothing to do with timings, and everything to do with Quad-core CPU running under 32-bit Vista. Try it yourself if you don't believe me.

> Which of the "PC quieting magic" steps

Most of the work was already done because we started with quiet components. Really I just slowed down fans, and adding eggcrate foam and damping foam.

> Why the change from the Scotts MSI MoBo and Graphics?

The 680i has come down in price and is the big brother of the 650i. As for the graphics, I recommend going with one of the passive options on the 8600GTS. It does cost more, but it's easier than modding the card..

Jeff,

I took your advice (and seized the sudden price drop on the 6600) and put together my quad core rig yesterday.

http://www.pdsys.org/blog/2007/07/23/GoingQuadcore.aspx

I haven't made a followup post yet, but I plan on pointing out some "gotchas" I ran into:

1) The CPU cooler you guys chose works great, however the method it "clips" onto the board is a little scary. I finally figured out that you have to have the knobs swivelled in the opposite direction of the arrows in order to "lock" it in. I'm still afraid it will fall off someday, though..

2) The RAM you originally purchased doesn't seem to be the "correct" speed; it should match the 1066 bus, right? I ended up buying the 800 stuff, but will be RMA'ing it to NewEgg in exchange for the mushkin 1066 ECC stuff. We'll see if that improves the memory score, even under 32 bit Vista.

3) I cannot get the rthdribl demo to run, for whatever reason. The window comes up, slightly "blurs", and then freezes. I have to force the program to stop. Guess I can't use that to stress the GPU. Everything else worked great, though... PRIME95, PCMark and 3DMark, not a hiccup.

So I a bit grumpy about this whole topic because the home brew computer they put on my desk at work uses inferior hardware and frequently (several times a day) powers off unexpectedly.

I don't know how much they "saved" by foregoing a Dell, but it was probably eaten immediatly by the tech time to assemble it. Then there is my time to restart several times a day and my time to redo whatever work was lost. Can you say "save obssessively?"

Arrrrgh!!

Well, I feel like a dumbass.

The board that you suggested before, with the lesser chipset, only supports 800MHz RAM. The Mushkin 1066 stuff I just bought is worthless. Poop.

http://www.pdsys.org/blog/

-Nicholas

A few weeks ago i decided to build my own computer, my laptop was quickly becoming obsolete and an upgrade was due. My friend and colleague, was in a similar situation, and between the two of us we researched component compatibility and configurations.

A little over two weeks ago he stumbled on your blog and it proved to be incredibly useful once it came to actually assembling the components and configuring the BIOS. Thank you for your efforts, and keeping such a detailed journal of your build.

The stress test applications you suggested worked great, and your guide to overclocking made me very comfortable with a process i had NEVER before even investigated. You wouldn't happen to have a similar one for networking, would you?

Thanks Again,

- V.M.

EVGA 680i (68-A1), Q6600 (OC'd to 3.0 @ 56C peak), Thermaltake (BIG) Big Typhoon, EVGA 7900 GT (x2), 4GB OCZ SLI PC6400, 1TB Seagate HD, D-Link Wireless N, OCZ GameXTREAM 850w, Ultra Alumuinus Full, 2x DVD-R/RW, X-Fi Music XTream, Hauppauge TV.

Thanks Again.

> The board that you suggested before, with the lesser chipset, only supports 800MHz RAM.

Remember, we overclock the bus, which increases the memory speed. So even on the "lesser" 650i chipset, you can make the memory run at 1066 MHz if you want to.

> I cannot get the rthdribl demo to run, for whatever reason

I don't see a video card in your list of build parts. Make sure you aren't using on-board video, and install the latest video drivers from either ATI or NVIDIA as appropriate.

Just thought you'd be interested to know that I priced up this kit in the UK, and it arrives at the princely sum of £1500 - about $3,000 at today's prices.

Still, you can't buy that much PC for £1500 at Dell.com...

(And I note that this stuff is *already* cheaper than the prices you found. Incredible.)

I'd love to know with the 6801 sli motherboard which speakers should i but to compliment the onboard sound system?

Excellent series, and great podcast interview to go with it.

One thing's been bugging me, though - on the Premium machine, you went with 2x500GB drives and 2GB RAM rather than one 500GB drive and 4GB RAM. From my experience developing on Vista, 2GB RAM is pretty miserable. Why not go to 4GB on the Premium rig rather than bumping up the drive space?

Jeff,

It seems that the sound-dampening foam would reduce the heat-dissipating quality of an all-aluminum case that serves as its own giant heat sink. Have you noticed if adding the foam inceases temperatures inside the box?

CoolerGuys is having a sale on those Antec P182 cases for $139.95 shipped ($30 cheaper than newegg):

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556068976.html

> From my experience developing on Vista, 2GB RAM is pretty miserable

My experience has been very positive on Vista for development and gaming, even in BF2 and Supreme Commander, which use over a gigabyte plus all by themselves.

But sure-- go to 4 GB if you think that's a better tradeoff. That'll force you into 64-bit OS land unless you want to only get 3 GB effective, though.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html

Somehow you've inspired me to build a computer from scratch, something I haven't done in years. I only have a couple of questions ...

What laser temperature gun were you using and did you like it? I found quite a few on Amazon, but I'm not sure which one I'd get.

What's the "Mark I finger"? I can't seem to find any place that tells what this is and/or where you get it.

... whether you have time to get back to me and answer or not, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to write this fantastic little series!

NeilO,

I'm pretty sure the Mark I finger is your finger

"What's the "Mark I finger"? I can't seem to find any place that tells what this is and/or where you get it."

NeilO - you need to use your Mark1 eye ball..

Hey Jeff, Nice work with Scott's PC. I'm currently building mine the main decision now is to-water or not to-water. I like that cooler you put into Scott's - the Ninja. Not too wide so it doesn't go over the memory sticks like others. How fast a processor do you think it can cool properly? What about the 3.0ghz quad? Thanks man,
miguel - miguel@steelbluesolutions.com

This has been a great little series Jeff. Thanks! And just in time as my current home PC is 6+ years old and I'm due for an upgrade soon.

Slick setup... what I'd really like to see is some discussion on the quiet aspects of the box. Power was a big part of this venture, but so was making it a quiet machine. You mentioned it but it seemed like an after thought. This is as much of an art as building a beefy box for a good price. I'd love to see some additional discussion here... even something on your podcast. Things like the foam used and where to place it, how the drives were dampered, the optimal speed of the fans (as you can set the speed on the Zalman fans), and most of all... how to know where the noise is coming from and how quiet is "quiet" (for example, we know 8GB RAM is a lot compared to 2GB, but 4GB is much more reasonable today for desktops [speaking with a very wide brush]... but is 5db unreasonable to shoot for? I have no idea as this is the part I can't speak intelligently to).

-AC
(cross posted on Scott's post)

Samsung SyncMaster 940UX 19-inch LCD Monitor
a USB monitor if you want more than 4 display :p
or can't have 2 video cards
http://www.thinkcomputers.org/index.php?x=reviews&id=639&page=4

I got my rig build at Extreme PC

I used this configurator:

http://www.extreme-pc.ca/customize.asp?productid=371441

I score like 18,500 in 3dmark 2006

My brother has done the hardware course in only 3 months.
Its very easy for him t fix any hardware PC problems.

I recommend you do some hardware course if you really want to fix all your computer hardware stuff.

And it will be quite easy to build your choice System once you master the Hardware.