I prefer the wood one! by the way I always put my head in the desk, I mean on my hand !:
I don't know how to explain it, may i need a photo ?

I recently bought one of those 'ergonomic' sitting balls, and honestly, they are one of the best things, for me, to sit on.

You know Jeff, I really don't like the way you're taking this blog. You're starting to recycle topics every couple of days, and it's starting to get rather boring. Why can't you come up with a new topic each time?

Bill, if you were reading my blog *OVER THREE YEARS AGO* when I wrote that original chair article, my hat is off to you.

I suspect that many people are new to this blog since then -- and I had some significant updates to make to the topic.

You should try any chair you're considering out for a week or so. Any good retailer will give you a loaner.

I went through this whole exercise about 3 months ago. I ended up only getting to try the Mirra and the Freedom for extended periods. The Mirra won out for me, particularly because of the locking forward tilt..

I also bought a newish one on eBay, rather than going through a retailer. The chair manufacturers' price fixing and policies on resale left me with a bitter taste, so I bought one from an unauthorized dealer and went without the long term warranty. It saved me about $300.

I'm sitting on a 30+ year old chair (older than me) that my parents bought... I've sat on it practically ever since I've used a computer, so I know...

I agree - choice of furniture is something so subjective that one can't really be defined by a science as mundane as ergonomics. But there are some things that are not so mundane, and have to do with the basic human physiology. As long as these are satisfied, I don't think ergonomics is really much of a problem.

Speaking of which, when did we get to think of 30 year old objects as "old"? I mean, in relative terms, they're practically new born. Our computers last a _maximum_ of 5 years and the rest of our stuff, as Jeff so wonderfully demonstrates, 10 years is considered "old". Now, I'm in no way aged or decrepit, but 5 years is ridiculously young, and 10 years is barely into early middle age, even considering turn-of-the-last-century times. I mean, it's just strange.

Hey Jeff, I wish the big corporates would see sense. We're stuck in the typical office chairs and to be honest they're nothing short of useless. How come I can provide one of these for at home, but the co i work for can't? Perhaps i'm just not that good an investment ;)

also, @Bill no need to whine if you don't like it, just don't read it.

Cheers,
Rob

Great post, Jeff. I think I'll reconsider where I sit on for almost 9 hours a day from now on. Being a grad student with an on-campus job does not help though (from a financial standpoint). But I'll definitely make a good chair my first to-buy item as soon as a decent paycheck arrives.

... well put, not to mention how all other aspects of ergonomica become double important for programmers, i think out of all my office place, the tech "team" is the one that spends the most sitting behind computer screens anyway.

I personally expect a good couple of decades of this behaviour so I caught on to ergonomics early and it's been quite a refresher.

My biggest fear however isn't my back or bum (for that there's quite a bit of technology, ergo this article), rather my hands, more specifically my mouse finger. I have a padded wrist mousepad, and every now and then rest specific left-hand fingers as I type naturally, but always am forced to use ONE finger on my right hand for clicking, i hope i don't develop anything in future off of 20 years worth of heavy programmer-job clicking, there's been enough talk about tunnel syndrome out there anyways.

Cheers,

/mp

That furniture porn was one of the most amusing websites I have been to in a long time. How did you find it? And who the hell <i>made</i> it?

I don't know about the rest of the chairs above, but the Aeron failed me and I spent the last 8 years sitting on a much more traditional chair instead. The problem is that the absolute top end of the Aeron's adjustment range is about an inch too short for me. The only thing I've found that fits right is a drafting chair (without the footrest) at the BOTTOM of its range. Being 6'5" is frequent a pain.

Hear, hear! Very interesting post --- really like the broad range of programming-related topics on Coding Horror, btw. As for myself, I have the pleasure of sitting on a Håg chair (http://www.hag.no). Sublime chairs, though indeed rather expensive. Worth every cent, though :)

Best regards, Onno

Bill is right, I don't think that this topic is interesting you can talk about technology secrets or easter eggs, that will be magnificent :)

I have had Aerons in the past, but now have TWO Miras - one in the office-office and one in the home-office, as bringing it home on the train every day was annoying the other commuters ;)

I agree that the Mira is better for reclining, which I reckon programmers SHOULD be doing quite a bit of, as we should be thinking a lot, rather than just typing-typing-typing!!

I love the furniture porn posts - in fact I referenced your original chair post while researching my new purchase. FWIW, I ended going with a Steelcase Leap and I'm quite happy with it.

Love this topic. Find it very hard to pick a perfect chair. One thing I do wish to add is how the mesh type is so much more forgiving on your clothes than the solid ones. Before I had mesh chairs my shirts really didn't last long because of the tear on the lower back. That's why I'd never go back to non-mesh.

I feel Bill has a point in what he’s writing, you seem to have entered a reminiscence mode/zone and you have been posting topics in a "re-visiting" kind of way.

but its true too that I am kind of new to this blog (maybe a year or so), still I’m taking my time to read all of your old posts which I find are pretty good, insightful and interesting, I have seen how your way of conveying your thoughts have been evolving, how they are becoming more polished and more refined over time, and that is precisely the reason I feel bill has a point.

BUT as you point out, every revisited topic has enough new info as to make it worthwhile write about them again, and as you have said in the past this blog is about making us think more on what would make all of us better programmers.

anyways, this post actually made me think on my current chair, is so cheap and old it doesnt even have wheels or where to put my arms -__-
i will have to go and see where i can buy the Herman Miller Mirra chair that can deliver to where i live (see, it really was worth to write about this topic again it made me think again how bad my chair is!)

I've never spent $500 on a chair and I'm not sure I would. I love my $88 computer chair from Sams. And at that price, I can actually replace it every 2 years and still come out cheaper than your 10-year chair.

And yeah, I'm thrifty, what's it to you? =D

The chair I have now is nice, but the arms are a little torn because sometimes they get caught under the keyboard tray when I slide the chair too close to the desk.

How tear/scratch resistant are some of these chairs? At $700+, I'd like it if the chair didn't look like a war zone after a year or two.

For long lasting office equipment, it is hard to beat the IBM Model M keyboard. I bought mine new in 1991 and it is still going strong; it has outlasted at least ten computers that it has been attached to, as well as the four long-term employers since then. As an added bonus, the loud clicks let everyone know when I'm writing code.

There are some function keycaps missing from a previous attempt to wash it and the H, K and L key caps have been replaced with arrows for vi, and it has been adapted to work with a USB motherboard. But otherwise it is still in good shape and should last many more years.

The only other piece of equipment that I have from the same era is my HP 41C. But it does not receive anywhere near as much use as my keyboard.

Spending $500+ on a chair seems pretty ridiculous to me. I understand you're sitting in it for a prolonged period of time, but I would much rather spend the money on a monitor, or desk, or keyboard, etc. Items that I feel are much more important to a programmer.

I think if you look around hard enough you can find a pretty decent chair for around $150. I got mine for $140 about five or six years ago and it's still going strong. I don't see any reason to drop another couple hundred dollars to get something that's pretty much the same.

I am currently sitting on a 40$ (in fact €) chair, and it is killing me. I am 19 years old. But my back, my lower back that is, is feeling like I am 80 or something, my arms and hands are tingling and my upper legs doesn't feel good either.

But my problem is that i really cannot afford a seat that costs over 500$. So I think i will sit on this damned chair for the next year, and then I have to buy another cheap chair, cause this one is braking down.

By the way, I am not working as a programmer, but I am sitting here, working at my PC for almost 10 to sometimes 12 hours a day at home, and at school, its the same thing, sitting on a chair which i wouldn't even let my dog pee at. But their is not much i can do about it..

Hey Jeff,

I've got the Ergohuman Mesh at work, and it's really nice. Not sure if it's as nice as the Mirra or Leap, but it does a great job for me. Even better since I got my company to buy it for me.

Since I'm going to start working from home due to gas prices, I wonder if I can convince them to buy me a new chair for my home office, as well.

We don't need multi-chair review -- reviews of chairs are useless for anything but picking initial batch of candidates. Trying the chairs at retailer's place is not very useful either, except for discarding bad ones. You really do have to loan the chair and try it for at least 3-4 days, as another person here said.

I did that a year ago, trying 3 chairs: Aeron (none of the other H-M chairs, Mira included, suited me), Freedom and Leap. Herman-Miller and Humanscale offered me to try the chairs with no problems. Steelcase dealer here was a pain in the ass (apparently, they couldn't care less about people buying only 1-2 chairs), I had to pull the call-the-headquarters trick on them, but man, did they try to please me after somebody from Steelcase US gave them a call...

In the end, I picked Leap with the mesh back (it doesn't cool as well as Aeron's mesh, but it's better than solid back of other Leap variants or Freedom). I didn't like doing it, the dealer was really bad, while both H-M and Humanscale were simply *great*. But they're the only Steelcase dealer here and the other two chairs didn't work for me:

* Aeron doesn't have enough lower back support, even with the lumbar support add-on and wasn't very comfortable in reclined position and the front edge is *hard*.

* Freedom is a cool mechanism. It moves with you and stabilizes itself in the position you pick, staying rigid enough to support you, but it's still easy to push against it and recline further. But the material the seat is made from is a little bit slippery (and they don't offer alternatives). I found myself sliding towards front edge of the seat over time. That simply won't do if you're prone to tail bone pain. Arm rests are not very configurable (IIRC they don't adjust in all three directions, but I may remember this one incorrectly).

Leap, on the other hand, has great, rigid lumbar support (in its fully equipped version). It's wonderful, really: no matter how I sit in the chair, I can feel solid support of the back. I rarely have tail bone or lower back pain anymore -- when I do, it's because I sat on something else somewhere, in which case Leap's lubar support is great for relieving any "leftover" pain that would otherwise reinforce itself by sitting again. Arm rests have by far widest range of positions of the three chairs. It lacks headrest, which is pity (the one version that has it is made from leather -- can you imagine sitting in _that_ for 8+ hours?). On the other hand, I use headrest only briefly, when fully reclined and thinking about something -- putting hands behind my neck works just as well for that.

@Brent:

> Spending $500+ on a chair seems pretty ridiculous to me. I
> understand you're sitting in it for a prolonged period of time, but
> I would much rather spend the money on a monitor, or desk, or
> keyboard, etc. Items that I feel are much more important to a
> programmer.

When you're under 20, you feel like that. When you grow a bit older and actually start experiencing even minor health problems apparently related to your work, you'll reconsider.

I should have bought good chair five years ago instead of that expensive quality 19" LCD that is not out of warranty yet, but already cannot be sold for more than 20% of its purchase price. I'm replacing the LCD with 24" Dell one (that costs half the old one's price and is better in every aspect) this month. The chair will last 10+ years.

I am one for the simple chairs. Simple armless steno chair I use at home (for space reasons) and one with arms is what I have at work, both I like. Then again working at a non-profit I don't ever think I'll ever see a $500 chair.

One thing I've come to like is having leather instead of fabric, as with many of us long time in front of the keyboard people we sweat at times and the fabric can take in some of that garlic you had for lunch, etc. Also in an AC office it is nice and cool when you first sit down.

Agree, chairs are realy underestimated.

Had a cheap "office-chair" before but upgraded to a 300€ chair a year ago and was at first not sure if it was worth it or not but now after a year i don't regret it for one second, even though i only use it at home for 2-3hours a day.

Now i'm even considering buying an adjustable table, being able to choose the exact position is a real relief.
Got any tips? :)

My fiancee is an Interior Designer and she swears by these chairs. She uses the Aeron chair at her work (like a $1200 model), and they hooked her up with a chair at 1/5th of the cost to bring home.

She tried to get me to get one, but I guess I'm just not that concerned. I don't mind my simple chair. All I want is another Soda.

I'm always reluctant to find an overly optimal seating configuration, as it feels like the best thing for ergonomics is to move around and not stay in any one position too long. My intuition is that "comfortable" and "ergonomic" can often be at odds. Or at least any one comfortable position isn't good.

Anyone else hate chair arms? Maybe convenient if I'm leaning back and watching something (which is uncommon), but for any kind of work the arm is at best superfluous, and at worst can be damaging.

I'm 17. Been sitting on this chair since... I started using computers?

I soooooo need to replace this piece of junk. Maybe I will soon, now that I have work-earned money of my own. No more need to bug parents about it.

(Last post, I promise)

I figured it may be interesting to know what other equipment people use... Me, I accumulated couple of useful non-computer stuff I couldn't work without:

* Humanscale 5G keyboard tray. Cheap trays suck, but this one is fully configurable and, most importantly, allows for negative tilt. That is, you set the tray to tilt *away* from you, by 3-4 degrees. This allows you to keep your hands in natural position and hold the mouse without bending your hand slightly upwards. Works wonders for mousing hand wrist pain.

* Imak SmartGlove is a life-saver. All but eliminates wrist pain (RSI or otherwise) in mousing hand.

* I'm toying with Details adjusTables Series 7 table for switching between working while sitting and standing. I couldn't get a quote on this one yet, but I suspect it's quite costy :-(

I've got one of those Aeron chairs at work and loathe the things. Best thing about it is the $20 cushion I bought at Target. It probably doesn't help that I have gone through the entire process of getting anf recovering from a herniated disc while in it. I like the idea of trying out each chair for the dealer for a while although in a work environment that is rarely an option.
I haven't found a single chair that suits me better than a laptop, a pillow and something to lean against. Interesting how biomechanics vary so much.

I completely agree, and have found myself thinking about this alot lately. I 25, and already have alot of constant back pain. Of course I can probably attribute this to 15 years of hockey, but I'm sure a good chair could really help my problems. Nice post, very timely, and who cares if its a rehash. Thanks.

I vouch for the mirra chair as well. It's the standard at my office and very comfortable.

http://www.calacanis.com/2008/03/07/how-to-save-money-running-a-startup-17-really-good-tips/

"Buy cheap tables and expensive chairs. Tables are a complete rip off. We buy stainless steel restaurant tables that are $100 and $600 Areon chairs. Total cost per workstation? $700. Compare that to buying a $500-$1,500 cube/designer workstation. The chair is the only thing that matters... invest in it."

I am no Calacanis fan, but this is dead on advice.

I've got nothing like that kind of money to spend at home, but my IKEA Joakim chair really isa very good for £90.

Yeah, indeed, for home use it is a little bit overkill of course. Although I am sitting longer at my desk then the average office employee. Lately I was looking for a new chair and I saw one costing around 240€. I was shocked because I never thought that a chair could cost that much! And here, you guys are even talking about chairs of 1200 dollars! 1200 dollars, un-believ-able, i can buy me a secondhand car with that kind of money :|

But now i think its worth the investment of at least 240€ as I am getting more and more symptoms of RSI/CTD

As a chair I use a Kinnarps $100 chair, it is definitly worth it.

http://www.kinnarps.se/v2/uk_v2.nsf/0/5645A85F31A0E7BDC1256BE30049D7AF?opendocument

IKEA has nice $250 tables made of birch, they light up the room which is important. It is also easy to attach stuff underneat the desk with screws since it is made out of wood.

I really hate the grey stuff that is in most US offices

see: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29807035

> When you're under 20, you feel like that. When you grow a bit
> older and actually start experiencing even minor health problems
> apparently related to your work, you'll reconsider.

Hear, hear.

The Swopper is the best chair I've ever used. It was very, very much worth the investment.

The Swopper's similar to sitting on a medicine ball but it's adjustable in height and firmness and it's stationary and it allows you to "swop" (it's actually fun to sit on).

Not only has it helped my low back (and all but completely eliminated my low/mid back pain), but it keeps me more *awake* and *alert* when I use it.

SERIOUSLY, the Swopper is amazing.

IMO, the Mirra chair is horrible. I've had the "pleasure" of having that chair as my work char on two different jobs, and both exhibited the same problem: the plastic back hurts after a while. I can't stand it. Also, I like to sit on one of my legs sometimes, and not a single one of the chairs shown permits that (without breaking your leg, that is). My $350 Staples executive high-back (p)leather chair is the best chair I've ever used, and, oddly enough, it too has lasted over ten years. I've played games while sitting in it for 12 or more hours straight with nary a pain, and I'm no spring chicken ('course, I'm not that old, either).

The only thing worse than a chair that doesn't work for your body or sitting style, is a desk that is too high or too low. I sat at a desk that was too high on a job (being a contractor, you get what you get) and it caused a great deal of back pain for weeks until my back gave up and went with the flow. Getting used to a regular-height desk induced the pain again, but, again, my back went with the flow eventually.

> In fact, after browsing chairs for the
> last few years of my career, I've come
> to one conclusion: you can't expect to
> get a decent chair for less than $500.

I can't see how you came to that conclusion. I got my chair for $300 and it's just perfect. I can sit 24 to 30 hours in it easily while hacking on interesting stuff.

Does the mesh on those chairs sag over time? Also, I read a review or two on those types of chairs that mentioned the bar under your legs can be uncomfortable since there's only mesh covering it and not padding. Any experience there?

Isku's Step F -chair, ~500 euros.

Armrests coated with this soft material that won't shave off the skin on your elbows. Adjustments galore. Had one for one year with no developed creaks, bending, molding or tilting.

http://www.iskuinterior.com/iskuasp/interiorweb.nsf/sp2?Open&secondNavinf=Eng\Navi\Products\Seating&secondNavinfa=o&action=openproduct&id=F8452519847BF150C2256E760&lang1=eng

I bought an Aeron chair years ago because my company doesn't supply anything as nice. I'll never again spend the day in a chair without a mesh seat, if I can help it. This chair has been with me at the office and to a couple of long-term consulting gigs.

I'm interested to know which chair wins out for you - give us a short post when you've picked one. Maybe I'll even think about upgrading...

The Herman Miller Aeron Chair has a 12 year warranty so you shouldn't be surprised that it is still going strong.

http://www.hermanmiller.com/hm/content/category/persistent_nav/HMI_Warranty.pdf

I have had my Aeron for a couple of years now and it is one of the best purchases I ever made.

What about those chairs from Giroflex? They are quite common in Europe - and I'm having one at home and I'm quite happy with it.

David,

My dad doesn't like the Aeron - same complaint about the front bar. There is a strip of padding there, but it might be a bit of a pressure point depending on how you sit and the height/tilt of the chair. Jeff's suggestion to go sit in a few chairs is a good one. I haven't seen one with a stretched or saggy mesh, or ever heard of that being a problem.

> I read a review or two on those types of chairs that mentioned the bar under your legs can be uncomfortable since there's only mesh covering it and not padding. Any experience there?

I do have a bit of a complaint about that on my 10 year old Aeron. Newer models have a bit of additional padding under the front bar, from what I understand. It is definitely not a chair you want to use if you're a "sit on the front of the edge of the seat" kind of person.

I just got back from a brief run to Design Within Reach (Mirra, Aeron) and the back store Relax the Back (Liberty, Freedom).

1) I do not care for the Liberty or Freedom at all. This surprised me based on the effusively positive Salon review..

2) I wasn't fooling myself when I first sat in that Mirra on the trip. When compared side by side at DWR, the Mirra really *does* feel like a different chair than the Aeron. The mesh base is much firmer and less prone to the sort of pressure point problems the Aeron has.

I need to try the Leap and Think; there's a local store, Rucker Fuller that has both according to Yelp. Going to make a run there on Monday..

I bought a Mirra chair a couple of years ago, and I have been very happy with it. It is absolutely worth the investment.

Been using a steelcase leap for the last 7 years and it's been fantastic. Made it through 5 years of a cube job and a year and a half of 16 hour days for a startup.

I have to second the Swopper. Ever since I used one we had lying around at work, out of curiosity, I never want to go back to a normal chair. (I first tried all the other types of regular chairs they had, none to my satisfaction). I bought a second hand one at home (they're expensive, but durable). My new employer gave me one at the office (yay!).

Initially it took 2 weeks for me to get used to, since it actually trains your back and torso muscles to keep your body upright (like when you are standing), something which a chair, how comfortable, can never achieve, since it invites you to relax those muscles. Once I was beyond the initial muscle adjustment, I found that at the end of the day I was energized instead of tired.

And it's fun, as the earlier poster mentioned. My colleague sitting opposite of me goes crazy with me bobbing up and down... (which is part of the fun)

all those chairs in the pictures ain't got no padding holmes. Padding is where it's at!.

My chair has a 5 hour rating. Perfect for me.

http://www1.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=363381

who really sits at their chair for more than 5 hours? the rest just look nice.

The HumanScale Freedom chair looks just like the chair the CTU guys sit on in the TV show 24. I want one. In CTU blue.

I bought an ergohuman mesh chair about a year ago, after my neck started bothering me and the "ergo" kneeling chair I'd seen my architect neighbor using in the 80's did nothing for me. I like it quite a bit; the only probable drawback I see is that the neck attachment just barely goes down far enough for me, and I'm 6'2".

I bought a Steelcase Leap about a year ago after an extensive search. I have to say I'm very happy with it. Let's face it, it doesn't look as cool as the Aeron models but it is extremely comfortable and has a suprising number of adjustments. Solid lumbar support. I feel like it has helped my posture significantly. I'm 6'2'' and a lot of "Office Depot" level chairs got uncomfortable after sitting in them for just a few hours. Ever get the "numb butt" after programming for 8 hours straight? Not anymore with this chair.

In my opinion the chair is one of the most important programmer tools, right up there with your monitor and speedy PC. A good chair can improve your productivity and health. A bad chair can cause you to break out of the programming zone and it can ruin your health over time. Consider the Steelcase Leap and whatever you do don't skimp on a chair!

Hmm. My chair doesn't say it's a "Programming Chair", maybe that's my problem. Of course, I forgot to switch out of my "Surfing stupid blogs" chair to my "Commenting on stupid blogs" chair to write this..

I've owned a Liberty for over a year now, but have only started using it as an "all day" chair for the past three months. In a word: terrible! The immobile arms and low back simply don't support a 6'4", 180lb person properly. While the travel up and down is excellent, it doesn't support the lower back at all when using a keyboard in normal posture.

Highly adjustable arms is the biggest feature overlooked by the Aeron and other high end chairs. I really appreciate arms that can pivot in close to my body, supporting my arms while I type. For this reason, I really like the BodyBilt chairs. The SteelCase Leap comes in a close second. I also think a headrest (which the BodyBilt offers) is important for times that you want to lean back either to think or talk on the phone. The big downside of the BodyBilt is that I find it confusing to sort through all of its options.

The Chadwick Chair is simpler and a little less embarrassing than some of the options you listed above.

http://www.knoll.com/products/product.jsp?prod_id=623

Don Chadwick knows how to make a good chair. He designed the Aeron and Equa chairs for Herman Miller. All the chairs listed above are influenced by Chadwick's design.

I found the Aeron great for sitting at a desk for 8 or even 10 hours... *with good posture*. Slouch, and the Aeron will punish you for it.

The Humanscale Freedom was the first chair that I found was good for sitting in with my feet on the desk, keyboard in my lap. (The headrest support didn't last, though, it keeps sliding down...)

However, both of these are have been retired to home desk-work chairs. My professional seating is a low, poofy, leather armchair - large (not "merely" wide) screen thinkpad, no desk at all, just a nearby filing cabinet. Wonderful setup, the matching sofa works well for drop-in collaboration, and it's lasted several years.

(As for RSI: stop using the mouse :-)

I'd prefer a more expensive desk that can raise and lower. That way I can spend some time working while standing.

I had the pleasure of test driving a Steelcase Leap Worklounge & Ottoman earlier this year. I am the type who spends all day reclined in his chair with his feet up on his desk. This chair is designed for people like me. It is ridiculously expensive, though I believe there is plenty of wiggle room with the price. I understand my company gets 40% off MSRP. Employees here get 20% off. This chair is something like $2k, which is out of my range right now, but I hope to purchase it in the next couple of years.

http://www.steelcase.com/na/leap_worklounge_ottoman_products.aspx?f=11853

I bought the Swopper a few months ago. I'm pretty happy with it. I started with a fit ball but the swopper lets you move around more freely.

The only downside for me is the padding is a little slim and my skinny butt gets a little sore at the end of the day. (6' 4", 190lbs.)

I've owned the Ergohuman Mesh Chair for about 2 years now. Sit on the thing between 4 and 10 hours a day depending on projects I have going on and so far very little complaints. It has adjustments for every major part and I really like the multiple height/angle adjustments on the arms . Picked it up online for about $500 and don't regret it. It's definitely a major improvement over basic office chairs.

I too have a chair that is about 20+ years of age, at least. It might even be 25 years... it was handed down to me as I just simply love it and couldn't imagine throwing it away... however, last week it finally broke, and it's to the point that it's not worth fixing. Heck, it's been reupholstered twice in it's lifetime. Thanks for pointing these chairs out... however, $1k for a chair is insane... but I could see $500 or maybe *a little* over. But now I know what to look out for in the next few weeks as it's time to finally upgrade.

Cheers

Steelcase Leap Chair here. I bought used one's from the Dayton's furniture store, years ago, as I was entering my computer science program in college. It was a good instinct.

Joe: it sucks being non-standard. I'm 5'0", which my chair handles O.K., but I ended up spending $2K on a desk with an adjustable height working area. Although on the plus side for you, eventually 6'5" will be in the range we build things for. Things are trending badly for us shorties!

The worst is that I have a horrible hand-me-down desk at work, which they screwed a keyboard tray on, and a cheap warehouse office supply store chair. They're going to cripple me.

boost your worksurface height, make your display eye-height, and sit in a humanscale freedom...lean it way back (distribute your weight along the length of your back). it's the best, from my perspective - as an aeron-, think-, mirra-, and freedom-sitter.

Alright. I appreciate the comfort of a good chair. I really really do. Don't get me wrong here. I even have a nice chair myself, but something about this article just sets the wtf thing off in my brain. Seriously, go work in a hot factory on your feet doing 50 to 60 hour weeks in the summer for two months and then come back and tell me about your chair. Now don't get me wrong. I have a really nice chair. I'm not saying you don’t deserve a nice chair if you want one. But this is written like you're just too good for that $100 chair. It all came off a little elitist to me I suppose. It's probably this line. "You can't expect to get a decent chair for less than $500." Seriously? Last time my chair broke at home, out to the deck I went to get the closest hardest plastic deck chair you ever seen and didn’t complain. It didn't occur to me for a second that it may not be good enough for me. I had a project to finish and would have sat on a bed of hot coals if I had to. Sorry, my family members were mostly factory workers until they did permanent damage to their bodies, and the only thing that happened then was they got a nice letter from the insurance companies saying they're not covered for that. Then they went to work the next day anyway, everyday until their seventies. I also worked in these God forsaken places while I was in high school, where if you even picture a chair in your mind you'll be fired unless you're actually assembling chairs. So, you may see it as a $400 chair isn't good enough for you, but I guess I simply appreciate the fact that I have a job where I actually can sit down instead of worrying about getting my fingers cut off in a machine that some idiot forgot to replace the guard on that day. Nothing against anyone though. I understand what you're really saying, but that thing just click in my head. Which means it's probably a good post. At least it provoked thought. I'll give it that.

That mesh looks really uncomfortable for programming in the nude.

What?

Someone had to say it. Best benefit of working from home.

I had and Aeron for a bit. Didn't like it that much except for one benefit:

>> when I would pass gas, the odor would pass thru the seat and not linger. this is not true of a standard chair where the offensive smell would soak in and offend those who stopped by for a chat sometime later.

"Programming chair"? What egotistical nonsense. Anyone who works in an office would want a good chair.

Programmers != special.

I looked through most of the chairs online. I went to a store in San Diego called Healthy Back. I tried many of the so-called more mainstream chairs. For the price, and for the quality of product, i think the Ergohuman Mesh Chair in leather is the best choice to make.

My father was having lower back, and sciatica problems with his cheapo $200 chair he bought at costco. We paid roughly $515 or so for it from the manufacturer. According to him, it's the best chair he's ever owned, or had the pleasure to sit on considering he used to work for Diamler Benz with a 6+ figure salary.

I bought a higher-end chair a couple years back and made several trips across Seattle to try them out. I tried the Herman Miller and HumanScale chairs. I couldn't find a place to try the Steelcase chair, unfortunately. But the one I really liked and ended up getting was the Knoll Life chair, which wasn't mentioned in your article.

http://www.knoll.com/products/product.jsp?=1&prod_id=188

Whenever I see one of those kneeling chairs it is off in some corner gathering dust. A lot of people try them but nobody seems to use them for long.

At the office we have two kinds of chairs: $5 stackable plastic lawn chairs and Aerons. The Aerons are definitely the nicer of the two, and yes, I'm glad the company makes sure that the chairs we spend most of the day in are Good Chairs. I've used them for years now and the mesh is nice on hot days. But I'm not entirely convinced that they're worth ten times as much as $80 chairs. I guess the fact that they hold up well over time (did you say 12 year warranty?) is worth something.

(There are also some futons.)

I'm a little concerned, though, about the folks reading this and making comments about their back pain and if-only-they-had-the-expensive-chair. The chair and gravity influence your back, but your musculature and the way you use your body plays at least as large a role.

So I suggest that for every dollar you put in to the chair, put at least one in to taking care of your body. Go spend $800 on yoga classes or gyrotonics or feldenkrais or Alexander Technique lessons. Or even massage. No, that sort of money isn't enough to buy you twelve years of massage, but I'm pretty sure that you'll be at least as satisfied with your purchase as Jeff is with his chair.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6187080.stm

"Scottish and Canadian researchers used a new form of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) to show it places an unnecessary strain on your back. They told the Radiological Society of North America that the best position in which to sit at your desk is leaning back, at about 135 degrees."

Also, a good picture of the popular Swopper in action, here:

http://www.conversionrater.com/2006/11/29/swopper-chair-review-and-recommendation/

> http://recomputation.blogspot.com/2008/07/re-investing-in-quality-programming.html

Jeff,
You are making a monumental mistake to revisit this again. A better chair will not increase your productivity, it'll keep you a slave to the tools. Next up: best programming keyboard, best programming mouse, next year you'll have a review of the best programming music. If you go down this road, there's only one way out: $500 gold-plated ethernet cables.

While you are not down to audiophile level stupidity consumerism, you are close. If you go down this road your productivity will drop as you blame the lack of tools, ie "My laptops keyboard sucks, can't code with it right now, will wait until I can dock it". If you go down this road you'll stop enjoying your passion. You'll become like Steve Kindig, sr. audiophile reviewer, who can't listen to his ipod for "extended periods" and can't "haul [his] system and listening room" for high quality music.

If you go down this road you'll rob yourself of the enjoyment. But there is salvation: Next time you sin, force yourself off your rig, sit down with pencil and paper, and write the damn code out. The rest of the world is doing just fine without the "Best X for Y" crap. Here's how the rest of the world does it: Wooden chair, 15" CRT monitor, cheap desktop tower. The U.S. hosts about 600,000 programmers, there are about 12,000,000 worldwide. You don't see them bitching about the chairs.

My mother plays a certain kind of sport, She's this years U.S national champion in the sport. This sport uses a certain kind of tool. She emigrated from a lesser endowed, country. Her tools are old, cheap by current U.S. standards. And yet, to my shock and amazement, when I looked up blogs discussing her: They were not talking about training, they were wondering about her tools. They were wondering what she was using, what brand was her (tool1), what production model was (tool2). I was floored. That was an important lesson for me. Both my parents are in this field, and they always say, the key is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, CONCENTRATE, RELAX, NOT TOOLS. Stop being a slave to the ubiquitous consumerism. Start focusing on your work.

And here's the last WTF with your article: You are wasting another $500-$1000 for another chair simply because it's associated "with dot-com excess".

> My mother plays a certain kind of sport, She's this years U.S national champion in the sport. This sport uses a certain kind of tool. She emigrated from a lesser endowed, country. Her tools are old, cheap by current U.S. standards

This is not a zero-sum game. You can practice the sport AND have quality equipment, too. Why does it have to be one or the other?

Besides, sometimes the equipment can improve performance, though I'll agree this is exceedingly rare:

http://www.popsci.com/entertainment-gaming/article/2008-03/can-swimsuit-be-too-good

Jeff,

I'm in the market for a new chair for my house, since my $200 special from OfficeMax hurts after a year of use.

I have a Leap at work and love it (we also have a few Think chairs, but having worked in one all day, I prefer the Leap).

I'm based in SF, so we bought our work chairs from Rucker Fuller a couple of months ago, and we are very happy with the them. Unfortunately when I called last week to buy a chair for home, I was told it would be several weeks at least for a Leap... :(

http://twitter.com/anotherjesse/statuses/848778550

it's one third of your life. Spend the money.

Jeff,

in my humble opinion, the best office chair if you also care about relaxing your head from time to time is Vitra's Headline chair. Best recliner I ever tried. Even when reclining, your head always stays looking forward instead of upward. Lots of clever engineering went into it, like designing a new kind of cusion fabric ("3d mesh").

Have you heard the story that Steve Jobs went looking for the right washing machine for 3 weeks with his familiy? Well if he ever would have searched for the best office chair that intensively, this would have been the chair that he ended up with :-)

Here's a few pics:
http://www.designbuzz.it/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/headline-vitra.jpg
http://www.vitra.com/en-us/office/products/headline/

And yes, I've got one, and I'm super-happy :-)
August

Anyone know any benefits of arm rests? I think they're bad for you.

> Anyone know any benefits of arm rests? I think they're bad for you.

All I know is that you definitely want padded ones rather than cast plastic ones. In my experiences, the latter will give you symptoms which resembles a tennis elbow:
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00068

After injuring a disc in my lower back, I found that an exercise ball ($15) works best for extended sitting. It allows me to keep my pelvic floor muscles engaged (think Pilates), which is important for supporting the back.

All of that is good for the US, anyone knows where to find some good chairs in China (Shanghai) ? I mean not buy online, i would like to try first, and i have yet to find any good place.

You can develop bad posture habits in any chair, regardless of price. That's the point a lot of people tend to miss.
Don't slouch, divide your working hours into 55 minute work / 5 minute callisthenics segments, adjust your keyboard and screen so as to avoid unnatural angles for neck and wrists.
Since about a year I have X11 set so that the screen-saver kicks in after 55 minutes. My lower back pain was gone after a month of that routine.

I am never going back to a chair. A good gym ball is the thing for me.
Took me a week to get used to it, but then it's the best thing ever.
Ever had back problems? Well moving to a gym ball no more back pain.

At Novo Nordisk (the largest insulin provider in the U.S.) in Princeton, NJ every employee from the person who answers the phone to the big wig on the top floor has an Aeron. It's such a great company to work for.

I was wondering if anyone knew where I could take a look at some of the higher end chairs in Paris. Amazon.fr is giving me no joy.

As a computer programmer (err, I mean software architect) I spend most of my day sitting at a desk working on a computer. I am a little larger than the average person, and I tend to be like the “princess and the pea” when it comes to being comfortable. When I was younger I could sit on about anything and still get my work done. However, that attitude can slowly take its toll on your body over time. Several years ago I started working at an office with all new office chairs which seemed to fit well and were pretty comfortable. These chairs seemed to have good padding and were moderately adjustable and so I thought they fit me okay. However, after a couple of years I started having a lot of problems with my shoulder blades aching, especially the left one. I couldn’t figure it out for a long time but as I last ditch effort I switched to an older chair that was a different design. It only seemed a little better at first but after several weeks I noticed a significant improvement in my shoulder pain and then after a couple of months it was gone. As an experiment I sat in the original chair that was causing me problems and after a few hours I noticed my shoulder problem started to act up again. The moral of the story is that even though a chair might seem comfortable even the smallest problem can turn into a major one over time.

I will save all of you the details but after a lot of research I end up settling on one of the 6000 series of chairs from Neutral Posture (see http://www.neutralposture.com/_site/products.php?cat=02 for details on Neutral Posture’s chairs). Along with being one of the most adjustable chairs on the market they also come in a variety of sizes and offer a wide range of materials and custom configuration options. You should easily be able to configure one of these chairs to match your every desire in an office chair. The only thing these chairs don’t have going for them is the cool look factor. Some of the chairs that Jeff showed are truly beautiful to look at. However, try sitting in one and you might (sooner or later) see why form should follow function and not vice versa.

There are several places on the Internet that sell Neutral Posture chairs but I ended up getting mine at Blue Hen Office Furniture (http://www.bluehen.com/neutral-posture-m-25.html?osCsid=8n0lejji4ad9btsivvkd75cri0 ) because of their great prices, wide selection of options, free shipping, and helpful sales people. Yes, these chairs can get expensive but in the long run a good chair will probably be one of the wisest investments you ever make.

"Anyone know any benefits of arm rests? I think they're bad for you."
No absolutely none, personally I feel they just get in the way. Whilst the reason for the topic of a comfortable chair is quite correct let us also not forget that you should invest in ergonomic keyboards and input devices.

You Suck.

Jeff, I don’t know which I disagree more with: the topic of this post or its conclusion.

First, as Achille and others point out, programming is probably the least physically demanding job ever, except probably for lying on your back dictating your memoirs. I’ve held no small share of manual-labor-type jobs (including 7 years of archaeological fieldwork) ... all of which produce in a day more repetitive strain injuries than weeks of hardcore keyboarding.

Which I suppose is a reverse-elitist way of saying: if you can write 1000 words (and 7 pictures) about what you sit on, you’ve officially run out of things to complain about.

Second, as Bernhard, alm and others point out, if your back hurts from sitting, YOU’RE SITTING WRONG. Human beings aren’t built to sit in one place for eight hours, we’re built to walk 20 miles a day in the tropical sun. Sitting is an active process involving your core muscles, and chairs like these promote the atrophy of those muscles. You know, the ones they call your CORE. An hour of yoga every other day will do more for your back and wrists than a $500 chair.

I have a textbook “bad back” and after eight hours in a getup like an Aeron I can barely stand. I prefer a kneeling chair, stool, hardback (read: dining room) chair, or cross-legged on the plain old floor.

Finally: it’s a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

Jeff -- You have an open invitation if you are ever in Grand Rapids to go to Steelcase and Herman Miller. Both are home here in GR and I have some contacts that can get us to tour and see the facilities. Steelcase has a very cool facility where they show off the newest innovations in workspace design. Very cool place to tour.

Also there is a Steelcase employee-only store where they have chairs coming off leases that can be bought for a lot less than new. The chairs are refurbished and most are in quite good shape.

"programming is probably the least physically demanding job ever"

Yes, but so? I would be willing to wager that in 20 years or so we will be seeing an epidemic of professionals who work at computers all day (not just programmers) that are practically crippled. Physical labor may be painful and demanding and carry risk of injury, but that doesn't mean that sitting at a desk 40 - 80 hours per week for 30 years is easy on the body.

Why the need to sneer at programmers because they sit while they do their job? Can't both kinds of work have long term negative effects?

Where can I get these chairs in the Greater Toronto Area?

I own the ergohuman in leather and have very little complaints. As far as good chairs, just make sure to get one with lots of adjustments.

Wow - some of the comments amuse me - I used to buy inexpensive chairs for my computer desk and then I got a serious job at a major telecom and they had $1200 chairs and was spoiled forever. I was so impressed with the chairs, when I left and started working from home, I got chairs for everyone in the house who sits at a computer. I found a few used locations that carry the chairs and I got them for $150 each (and they retail for $400 not the same as the telecom, but still, very nice)

Now, the only people in the house who sit on regular chairs are the children (under 10) and the guests. (we have 10 PCs in the house, we have guests all the time...)

Some people think this is elitist, however, some people spent $1000 for a seat option for their car where they will spend an hour to 90 minutes a day in it (I work from home, I filled up the car in May, still have half a tank of gas, so your time in the car may vary), yet balk at spending he same $1000 for a chair they will sit in for 8 to 10 hours a day. I feel the same way about the mattress to my bed, I spend far more time on that then in my car, I should invest adequate money in those for quality top grade products.

i will also throw my hat in with the crowed that's mentioned exercise balls.

i started sitting on one in 2002 or so, and nothing i have ever tried comes close to being as comfortable over the long haul.

it does not recline, which can be bothersome at times, but i never get a sore back, never a sore butt and i never have any real complaints at all.

best $25 i have ever spent.

I have to agree with Paul and Keturn. The problem that programmers face - having to sit and be alert for eight or more hours a day - is NOT a new problem. For over 1000 years, yogis have developed and refined yoga to confront the anatomical problems presented by having to sit and concentrate hard for ten hours a day. Anyone who can should get some lower back strength studying yoga, and drop $40 on a buckwheat zafu. You can put a zafu on whatever you want, at whatever height you want, and with lower back strength it will hold you up and radiate your heat perfectly. Spending $1000 on a chair won't make you sit better any more than than spending $1000 on a watch will make you more punctual; it's one of those situations where dollars can't really proxy for effort.

When I worked for the corporate HQ of Whole Foods Market, all of us got one of the Herman Miller Mirra chairs when we moved to the new (2004) building. They definitely are nice, and I had few complaints (the only real one being the armrests "popped" from one position to another too easily).

Conversely, they stuck us all in these low-walled cubicles which totally sucked. To add insult to injury, they sought to mask all the noise from people on phones, miscellaneous talking, etc. with these really annoying white noise generators. So, for Whole Foods - big kudos for spending good money on good chairs; boo, hiss for putting employees in "day-care style" cubicles and pummeling them with white noise.

Interesting post. I hadn't realized till now that I'm sort of somehow proud of my Staples Special.

Paul Souders: "it’s a poor craftsman who blames his tools."

Yes, but it is also a poor craftsman who never thinks about upgrading his tools.

I'm not sure if this topic actually has anything to do with productivity, but anyone who has even worked with anyone who has back problems knows it's a worthwhile discussion. I just wish there was a more comprehensive survey of chairs.

Paying $500-2500 for a chair is ludicrous. As of right now, I'm starting a company that makes quality, ergonomic chairs for an affordable price. I'm OK with $250-300, but anything above that is poppycock. Balderdash. Criminal.

It's another Atwood "Ooooohhh, look at me and all my disposable income!!" post.

Just kidding.

Ah, chairs & programmers ... I thought I was alone.

I could not agree more with what Bernhard has to say. It is not really the quality of chair [ well, I guess it matter to some extent ] but the fact that the sitter must consider the fact that the body must move. Blood circulation, position/shape of the spinal chord, etc matters far more than the quality of the chair. I personally like to change chairs every so often. I never sit for longer than an hour. Stretching, or simply standing up after every 45 minutes to an hour is crucial for me.

I have been told that quality of attention may drop because of movement, but I really don't think that there are many people who can keep high quality focused attention for more 30 minutes to an hour any ways.

Arm rests do suck unless they are adjustable to a high degree, then they can build a nice support for hanging elbows [ that is if you are not using a keyboard tray ].

I wonder about keyboard trays. Are they really helpful or just another work furniture fashion? I was never able to learn how to get along with them.

Just wondering, Jeff, do you know what caused you to drop nearly 5,000 RSS subscribers? The other day you passed 103K, now you're at 98140 (at the time of this writing).

Just wondering.

I think you're wrong about the price - I went out to Office Depot to buy an Ergohuman mesh for $500+, and they had another Ergohuman there for under $200 - not a mesh, with a few less features, but it felt just about as good. I forget the exact model but that's what I recommend unless you are a rich bastard.

I just want to say I _really_ did enjoy your post. It is an very important topic. In much the same way one should upgrade his/her monitor from CRT to an LCD to relieve the eyes from stress and strain. I for one has much less problems with my eyes since I switched (thankfully a long time ago now.) To the people not liking the post: Don't you comprehend how utterly broken your bodies will be if you keep sitting in non-ergonomic chairs for the rest of your programming life? There ARE other things important to developers than code.

I agree with Bill - this blog is deteriorating. All the recent posts are either all pictures and quotes, revisits, or badly concealed ads for Herman Miller office chairs.

yeah try not to laugh but my current chair is from walmart for about $30, seemed nice but I've been sitting here for about 9 minutes and my ass is already numb ..... and just to note, 8 hours a day? I think most programmers spend a good 12+ in their chairs .... at least I do, maybe I'm lazy :)

Am I the only person who has always hated the Aeron chair? It's not comfortable at all, and yes, I sat on one every day. Give me lots of foam...

Steve, I don't know about hating the Aeron, but I know you're not alone in not preferring it. We had at least 6 or 7 people with the option to switch their relatively cheap foam chair for an Aeron, and the Aeron sat in the corner... it was just not as comfortable.

Would you people please just stop talking about how "this blog is deteriorating" and suppress your need to whine? If you don't like the subject matter of the post, don't read it. If you don't like the direction the blog is going, go find a new blog to read. I don't care about your juvenile whining and complaining and it bothers me when I have to waste time reading unproductive comments such as that. Go tell it to your parents or your teacher you whiny infants.

Back on topic, I find that even in my chair at my office it doesn't seem to affect my back as long as I take the time throughout the day to get up and take a 5-10 minute walk to the water fountain or something, and stretch a little. Is there store I can go to and try sitting in one so I can see what all the fuss is about?

If you sit 8 h at work you are certainly doing something very wrong. Buy an electrical desk which is adjustable for height. Use it to stand every few hours. YOur back willb e very thankful for it.

Very good article. I do believe in investing in a good quality chair if you're going to be sitting in one for an extended amount of time. However, I don't necessarily believe that you have to spend big bucks to get a great chair. I bought my chair on sale from Office Depot for 50 dollars.

The Chair:
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/489155/RS-Zeplin-Chair-48-x-26/

My only complaint about leather chairs is that if you're in an even remotely warm environment you're going to be sweating your behind off. Over extended use you might tear or rip part of the leather structure, but it is the feel and relaxation that counts. If you could find a cloth chair like this it would probably be your best bet for the least amount of money while remaining very relaxing.

If you live in Florida like me, it doesn't matter what material you get a chair in you will sweat. That is the down side of living in a sunny, beautiful state. :)

500$ for a chair?
would you pay for a chair that cost half of your paycheck?

this one is 85$

http://www.officemobtrade.ro/images/scaune/p4-scaun-mare.jpg

Seating matters indeed. Forget chairs. Sit seiza. You will never have problems remembering to stand up and move around a bit every half an hour or so, and it will help your health more than any chair whatsoever.

Achille,
I believe you have completely missed the point and gone off tangent. A chair is not a _tool_, it is an object to rest your body in a comfortable state so you can _concentrate_ on programming/working. Instead of complaining about that ache on your back, or the strain on your knee (which I suffer from).

A good chair does not make us think wiser or smarter. A good chair eases the burden on the body so that we don't have to waste time keeping awareness of our discomfort and preventing us from thinking about our work.

How does one practise, practise, practise away discomfort? Please advise.

Jeff,
It is _good_ that you revisit old topics previously explored. This shows your persisted interest in matters and your willingness to go back and reflect on your opinions, whether they have changed or not, how much you have grown and matured since then. I believe your blog is _not_ a newspaper or magazine ever desperate to put up any topic that can keep the readership up. I believe your blog is meant to display topics that _you_ are personally interested in.

Anybody who thinks otherwise, perhaps has not read the blog deeper beyond the per-article level.

As usual Jeff you have read my mind.

Ironically this article was one of the first things I read as I sat in my brand new chair that I bought during the weekend.

As a homeworker I had previously skimped on seating and it was killing my back and ruining my concentration. I had nothing against spending a reasonable amount on a chair - after all I spend 8+ hours a day sat in it - but I couldn't find anywhere locally that sold Miller or Ergohuman level chairs.

In the end I picked up a nice unlabelled high-level-but-not-designer chair, which is similar in style to the "Ergohuman Mesh Chair", but with padding rather than mesh.

I think is called a "KH1 Symphony operator chair". It's very adjustable (seat height/tilt/depth, back height/tilt, headrest height, arms) and was a bargain at £200 (~$393).
For comparison the Ergohuman costs around £380 (~$747) in the UK.

The key point you raise is how difficult it can be to find these chairs in a place where you can try them out.

Buying the right chair is like buying the right pair of stereo speakers. May be cheap, may be expensive, but you're going to have to experience it and judge for yourself because it will be a very personal fit, and what's right for you is what's right.

I have an Aeron at work, it's acceptable. I have an Ikea ALLAK at home ($69.99), and it's more than acceptable. But don't order either off the web -- you've got to go sit in one and see if it's right for you.

Yes, Paul Souders, it is a poor workman who blames his tools, but the point of that saying is that the workman's bad not because he blames his tools, but because he was responsible for making sure his tools were up to the job.

This entry is about making sure people's tools aren't holding them back.

Any Babylon 5 fan can tell you that the classic Aeron has a lot of years left to it — they will still be used in military bunkers on Mars in the 23rd century.

A 'good' chair is damn important.

I had to sit half a year in a f*cked up chair!

It was broke, and stayed in a 45 degree angle!
They (www.ls-ag.ch) "couldn't" change it..

'Lean back'.. but not Gangsta style..

Glad I changed my employeer and have now quality equipment.

Well, my workplace recently changed my chair for me (and everyone else's as part of a refurb). Imagine my surprise when I no longer had arms on my chair and ended up flat on my face the first time I went to lean on them as I usually do (did)!!!

I've had a Steelcase Leap chair for about a year now. There are some things I love about it:

* The adjustable arms are awesome. This really helps with aching neck and shoulders.
* The recline feels very natural and comfortable and is fully adjustable.
* The seat base is very comfortable.

The only thing that I'm not sure about is the lumbar support. It's not bad, but it just doesn't have that ultimate comfort feel that I was expecting. It feels a little stiff/rigid to me. As a disclaimer, I should point out that I have low back pain issues, so maybe I'm asking too much.

The next time I'm looking for an office chair, I'd like to check out the Steelcase Think. I believe it has all the same good points as the Leap (adjustable arms, recline, seat), but it has a different kind of back support that may be more comfy for me. It's also a green chair and looks a lot nicer than the Leap.

I was disappointed that this posting did not live up to its title. I was expecting a discussion of quality chairs for quality programming, basic chairs for basic programming, waterfall chairs for waterfall programming, etc. Rather like that David Lee Roth song:

"I walk around with the blues
I need some sensible shoes

Sensible shoes, ones that will lead me back to you."

PairOn chairs for pair programming:
http://www.cenqua.com/pairon/

The poster talking about how programming is not hard work is simply ignorant. I have serious spinal problems while my brother has worked labor all his 50 years and has none. This is not isolated, but common.

The only back store in Denver doesn't stock squat. There is a Herman Miller dealer in the Denver area, but there is nowhere to test drive any other chairs. I use a back support strapped to my cheap chair and that's probably the best thing. I've *never* sat in a chair that has that kind of support.

The swopper does seem promising though...

Everywhere you go, all the professionals say the same thing: ergonomic chairs are the key to a better workday. I had researched for some time before finding the right website, Officedesigns.com, and the right chair, the Aeron, for the right fit in my office. Like all the blogs had said, my back pain went away and my arms felt less sore at the end of the day. The people at Officedesigns.com told me how to adjust my chair to size perfectly with my body. I'd recommend ergonomics twofold for anyone who asks.

>Buy cheap tables and expensive chairs.

Didn't Joel buy very expensive adjustable tables for his office recently?

All this talk about sitting in fancy chairs, and no mention of getting any excersise. Programmers move from chairs to couches to tables (back in chairs). No wonder people have health problems.

My fat ass has broken a lot of supposedly nice office chairs.

For some reason, the Verte` chair has intrigued me for a few years, though I haven't actually had the opportunity to try one out in person yet. http://www.anthro.com/cpage.aspx?pid=220

I am also convinced that you HAVE to spend more than just a couple hundred on a chair that you use for 8+ hours a day. I blew some freelancing $$$ on an Aeron at home (I got spoiled at the one that I had at a previous job) and never looked back.

However, I managed to get a Mirra at my current job and I *do* believe that it is slightly more comfortable while being slightly less expensive than the Aeron. Add 10 year warranty into the mix and it becomes cost effective. Really. You get what you pay for - a >$500 chair will last for a long time, be attractive and comfortable.

I recently bought a new chair as well and I couldn't agree more with you on their importance to anyone who spends a significant enough amount of time sitting.

Prior to buying my new Office Star Space Series, MATREX chair, which is essentially a high-back ripoff of a herman miller chair with a head-rest, I was using <$100 staples chairs which would break in under a year. Not only is the new chair sturdy and amazingly comfortable, it also has a lifetime guarantee, so even if my fat-ass breaks it, I don't have to worry about shelling out for a new one.

While it was hard to justify dumping almost $600 on a chair, I haven't regretted it for one second.

Everyone needs a good desk chair to be productive.

I had to suffer through a partly broken, crappy excuse for a chair (henceforth, chair A) for maybe 6 months recently. I asked, I cajoled, I even half-begged for a replacement and was promised much but got nothing for it. Someone more important than I in the grand scheme of things had a major chair breakdown and after maybe 6 more weeks, I finally got a replacement (chair B). I'm not sure what it was - I think some sort of Office Max knockoff of the Aeron idea. It was pretty nice, though, certainly much nicer than the chairs I sat in that preceeded A, and A, which I hope was thrown away and went to the Chinese Hell of Boiling Oil.

Of course, a month later the development group was moved to the new(ish) business office location, and was ordered to leave chair B behind. I now sit in chair C, which is better than chair A in a decidedly backhanded manner, and vastly inferior to B.

Sigh.

NRR: "All this talk about sitting in fancy chairs, and no mention of getting any excersise."

Exercise? Are you nuts? If your problem is a back injuries caused by a sedentary job of course the solution is a more-comfortable chair which will allow you to be even more sedentary.

Spend your way to early retirement! Eat yourself thin! Drink away your alcoholism!

ps if you think programming is somhow hard on your body I'd love to introduce you to my buddy who lost his arm at the meat packer

It still shocks me how much so called "quality" office chairs cost. Are they really that much better or do office suppliers realize that companies (which are the major customer) have deep pockets?

I'm sure my chair at work costs at least in the $500 range and I don't find it anymore comfortable than the Office Depoit chair I spent $100 for at home.

Maybe I'm missing something by not having one of these great, expensive chairs, but as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss!

I'll have to agree with some of the previous posters. People need to get up and walk around a bit at intervals rather than sit in a chair for eight hours straight. And after you get home/end work do some exercise. Some strength building work and yoga stretching is great for keeping the body from developing the problems some of you are facing with muscle tension and joint issues. Sitting in the same "comfortable" position banging away on your keyboard for hours on end is a recipe for long term physical disaster.

Granted no one wants to sit on an uncomfortable chair for any length of time, but once you get to a point where you can be comfortable at your workstation you still can't sit there for hours and then go home and sit on the couch for hours watching tv and expect to have no physical issues.

An excellent budget chair for programmers is the Malaga 3140 (if you shop around, you can get one for $250 or so). It is highly contoured, has generous cushioning, and has more adjustments than most expensive chairs. I've visited several show rooms and tried dozens of chair models, and it wins hands-down. I use one at home extensively.

As an aside, I use the HumanScale chair pictured in the OP at work (no choice) and wouldn't recommend it. The sitting surface has very little padding and is very flat, and coworkers agree that the back feels too close regardless of adjustment. It also prevents you from locking the tilt mechanism; if you prefer to sit upright rather than recline you better love its pre-configured position or you're out of luck.

Working at home, my chair and desk get more use than anything else I own. More than the car in my garage, the couch in front of the TV. All of which cost more than the chair I bought (TV included).

Blowing a grand on a chair was nothing and to me was bargain for more comfort and improved productivity. I'd do it again. Why one will spend the money for a new computer/laptop that only lasts a few years at best, but not on a nice comfortable chair and desk is beyond me when the chair and desk will pretty much last forever.

I ended up with a Steelcase Leap Chair (black leather; it was on sale). For the desk I ended up with an Anthro Standard Fit, but wish I would have sprung for the Details Series 3.

By the way, Steelcase told me that they were working on a head rest accessory for the Leap, like they have for the Think.

Chris: "my chair and desk get more use than anything else I own"

Damn, that's the saddest sentence I've ever read.

Your CHAIR gets more use than your [bicycle|running shoes|gardening tools|food processor|fishing rod|guitar|baby stroller|ham radio]?

Has anyone here seen WALL-E?

SamSim: I don't run, bike, eat 8 hours a day. I do those things, but not 8 hours a day. So, I don't see what is so sad about it. I work from home, so it's my most used item.

Chris, friend, what's sad is that your prize possession is a f*ing chair. (Followed, and I'm just guessing here, by a car, a couch and a TV). What's sad is that this string about f*ing chairs has run what, 200 comments? What's sad is that Jeff posted his review of chairs on the FOURTH OF F*ING JULY and that 90% of those commments have come during a THREE DAY WEEKEND. What's sad is that so many commenters think the problem is "cheap chairs" instead of "too much sitting."

I work 8 hrs/day too but "working" != "sitting" and it damn sure != "sitting in the same damn chair for 8 hours" Sometimes I go to the coffeeshop ... sometimes I stand at the computer ... sometimes I have meetings ... sometimes I walk around the block thinking ... sometimes I use a piece of paper and a pencil ... sometimes I just use a different chair to give my ass a break

Not too mention I get another 16 hrs/day and 24 whole hrs on 2 days/wk when I am nowhere near that chair.

Not that I'm getting too much work done today. I keep hitting "refresh" on this thread. The attention to sloth on display here is damn near hypnotic.

@SamSim:

I completely agree with Chris here. You are way off base.

Are you honestly saying that you spend more hours per week using your bicycle, your running shoes or your gardening tools than the chair at your desk?

Chris didn't say it was his "prize possession". He asserted that it was something that he used a lot, so it justifies a reasonable investment - especially when compared to things that cost more and are used less.

> "I work 8 hrs/day too but "working" != "sitting" ..."

That's great for you. Really. Well done.
But I bet the majority of folk reading this blog spend most of their day sat in a chair in front of a PC. Not through lazines or sloth, but because their jobs involve writing code and that is where the code is.

> Sometimes I go to the coffeeshop ...

Yep - someimes I go make myself a coffee. But it only takes 2 minutes.

> sometimes I stand at the computer ...

What and bend down to the desk? Or are you offended by buying a good chair but happy to splash out on an adjustable variable-height desk?

> sometimes I have meetings ...

Not so much when working from home. And even in the office they generally just involve sitting in a different chair.

> "sometimes I walk around the block thinking ... "

Yeah, in the UK we call that "skiving"

> "sometimes I use a piece of paper and a pencil ... "

And what.. hover in the air? Bend over a desk?

> "sometimes I just use a different chair to give my ass a break"

Well buy a decent one and your ass won't get sore in the first place.

> "Jeff posted his review of chairs on the FOURTH OF F*ING JULY and that 90% of those commments have come during a THREE DAY WEEKEND."

Newsflash: there are other countries in the world - the majority of which do not celebrate your national holidays.

> "The attention to sloth on display here is damn near hypnotic."

Newsflash 2: sitting at a desk working != sloth. However, avoiding work by hiding in the coffee shop is a pretty good example of sloth.

I recently (June 2008) tested extensively the Aeron and the Mirra.
Everyone keep on telling me to go for the aeron, but my body kept telling me to go for the Mirra. Not only was it less expensive it felt a lot better that the agging desing of the aeron. Be sure to get the one with the Seat Depth Ajustment.

I bought a Nightingale CXO chair two years ago, and I absolutely love it. At the time, I was equipping a home office, and I planned to buy a used Aeron on Craigslist. (I used an Aeron at a previous dot-com, and it seemed quite comfortable and adjustable.) But I went to The Healthy Back Store, which is a small chain in Washington DC and southern California, and I realied the CXO was a much better choice. It fit my body much better, so it was quite comfortable, moreso than any Aeron. I strongly recommend trying out high-end chairs at a local store, for extended periods of time, as it's the best way to find the right chair for each individual.

> Newsflash: there are other countries in the world - the majority of which do not celebrate your national holidays.

That is SO unamerican. Rest of the world, consider yourself on notice!

My goal in life is not to own a million things. It is to own 100 things that I really, truly use and value -- and get rid of everything else. So why not pick a quality chair?

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002926.php

Our company works with data centers, emergency call centers, and network operation centers (NOCs). The Ironhorse chairs are rated for 24 hours. The price is 1000+, but 24 hours is a long time to sit in your chair. You can find them at: http://www.ergonomicofficechairs.com/. That is what we recommend to clients who have people pulling 12 hour shifts at a workstation.

Graham Stewart, you really skooled me, dinnitja? So let me bring the tone down a little so my point won't get lost.

I'm not arguing with you about the Productivity Value of A Good Chair (and if you only own 100 things one of them might as well be a $1000 chair) I'm pointing out the way people's attitudes about CHAIRS makes me FEEL ("sad"). Part of what makes me feel this way is the context of the discussion (a long summer weekend for most of the readers, including the author). Partly it's the passion people have for office chairs which in my experience (limited to a single blog post, sure) rivals that of "best golf clubs." Partly its the heat a suggestion like "maybe you should sit less" can generate.

But mostly what makes me sad is the crazy way so many very smart people are devoting so much attention to what may be the wrong end of the syllogism.

Person 1: "My back hurts because I sit for long periods in a particular chair."

Person 2: "Maybe you should sit less, or in many different chairs."

Person 1: "No, no...I need a BETTER CHAIR!"

I submit very humbly that before you drop a cool grand on the chair-to-end-all-chairs it might behoove you to consider the other bits of that syllogism.

The company I work for has a big ergonomics program. They figured out it is cheaper to get the right workstation furniture than to pay medical bills for RSS (Repetitive Stress Syndrome) injuries.

They set up a chair room with 5-6 selected ergo chairs. You went there, and tried out each of them; selected the one that fit you. Some just didn't fit right, even with 8 different adjustments. For instance, some chairs could drop the front end of the seat to relieve pressure there. Some worked better for short people, some better for tall people.

The best you can do with this topic is get a list of good chairs. Don't buy one without trying multiple versions.

Spend your money on the things your body touches for many hours a day: chair, mouse, keyboard, and screen. Don't scrimp. And then pay attention to how it is arranged: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/

... and give the MS split/ergo keyboard a try - especially if your shoulders are wider than the keyboard.

SamSim: You got me, my post implied I owned those things. I actually don't own a car (not needed where I live) or couch. They say after a house, a car is usually one's largest investment followed by furniture/appliances though. Which is what I was getting at. Those items usually cost much more, but get used much less.

I do have a TV, which I barely use. So, I hardly consider it a prized possession. I went multiple years prior without one. I do not even have cable as it's not worth it to me.

I have no passion for a chair. Previously I had crummy Staples chairs, the $50 ones on special to be exact. However, over time they became very uncomfortable especially noticeable later in the day to the point where my back would start to ache. So, I decided to look at alternatives and was willing to pony up the money to get something comfortable for long periods of time.

I do go and work at the coffee shop a few days a week. They don't have expensive ergo chairs. They do have nice wood bar stools with matching tables though and I get to meet lots of interesting people. Especially when school is in session. The coffee tastes like snot (not that I wold know what that tastes like), but I still go.

I don't understand why you are so angry and passionately eccentric about someone who decides to invest a few extra into a more expensive chair?

It's just a chair, get over it.

Some people have no control over their anger. Hope that explains it.

> the crazy way so many very smart people are devoting so much attention to what may be the wrong end of the syllogism

There's an inherent zero-sum argument here that makes no sense. You can care about quality seating *and* get exercise *and* have other interests *and* practice programming, too.

You'd probably be less angry if you were sitting in a nice, comfortable chair as you wrote your comment. That's all I'm saying.

Captain Kirk never would have accomplished all the things he did with a crappy captain's chair. I'm just sayin'.

Jeff, are you going to let us know which chair you decided to buy?

Chairs?

My company bought a litter of Aerons. They're OK, but 1) the pneumatic post collapsed in one of them so we had to ship it back; 2) unless you have a private office, and I don't, flatulate craftily as there's no fart-muffling upholstery and padding. 3) if you're office is drafty, then your ass and back will be drafty too. Some people complain that the mesh material damages their clothing, but I haven't noticed.

Many many good points....

I just came across this and was fascinated by the passions (or lack therof) of what people will sit in for most of their hours of the day.

I'm not a programmer, but I do sell chairs online, and have a special affinity towards ergonomics.

What I tend to say is... sit in what's comfortable (that doesn't HAVE to be expensive!), make sure your workplace is set up correctly (monitor arm, good keyboard tray, footrest for shorter folks works wonders), and make sure you take a break and stretch often!

There are many reasons for ailments, and not one thing is going to cure everything.

One thing I am fond of saying is that you could buy the most expensive chair anywhere, but if you don't take care of the other things around you.... you might as well be sitting on a rock!

> Not that I'm getting too much work done today. I keep hitting "refresh" on this thread. The attention to sloth on display here is damn near hypnotic.

Really? Are you sitting in a chair while compulsively refreshing the thread about investing in a quality chair? :)

I haven't had any pains or problems with my $160 Office Depot chair which I've had for 2 years. So I'll probably stick with it as long as no problems develop.

http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=363891&N=201652&An=browse

Controls for tilt, height, back height, back angle. Lumbar cushioning.